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Genesis cabling


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#1 Rusty Geller

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:46 PM

The Genesis has caught up with me here in W. Australia. Can I use any of my old Panavision film gear or is it all different? I have a Pvis dove-tail to Steadicam plate, and all the old film cables. It looks like it uses a different power cable, what connector is on the battery end? Do any of the old start stop cables still work? What size are the focus rods? Should I carry the recorder top-mounted, back-mounted or on a grip? Does it have an SD BNC video out?
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#2 Amando Crespo

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:58 PM

The Genesis has caught up with me here in W. Australia. Can I use any of my old Panavision film gear or is it all different? I have a Pvis dove-tail to Steadicam plate, and all the old film cables. It looks like it uses a different power cable, what connector is on the battery end? Do any of the old start stop cables still work? What size are the focus rods? Should I carry the recorder top-mounted, back-mounted or on a grip? Does it have an SD BNC video out?


Ops!... Dear friend... Rusty, I worked 4 months ago with Genesis, and all is changed... Try the camera (or your assistant) before to work. Genesis needs to much batts. and balance it weight...That camera for me was nightmare... Be carefull ..... Of course, it´ve spectacular resources :angry: :rolleyes: :o :huh: :blink:
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#3 Chris Flurry

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 04:43 AM

The Genesis is its own beast. The Power cable is a 8 Pin Lemo and you should have Panavision build it for you. If you are flying a PRO rig this will take the form of a Y cable which pulls power from both your main power and your Aux 12V power. Power is the main issue with the Genesis, in one piece mode (the camera and SRW-1 Deck together) the current draw is around 15 amps. If you detach the Deck from the camera and mount it on the SRPC-1 video processor and have a grip carry it, the current draw drops to about 10 amps. The latter is the preferred method of operating due to the Genesis's weight when flown in one piece. When having a grip carry the deck you will be tethered by two BNC cables. Use two short flexible BNC cables (about 6' long) and run them from the camera to your vest. This will allow you to operate the steadicam as opposed to the cables operating the Steadicam. You can then BNC barrel into the hefty BNC cables that run to the deck. The total length of this cable run should be no more than 20 feet or thereabouts. You should then Run HD-SDI from the Deck/Toaster to your DIT tent to monitor that everything is hooked up correctly and you are getting OK picture. (i.e. no bad cables, no reversed cables, between you and the deck) You can also go the fiber route to eliminate all this mess, but i know nothing about that so I will let others fill in that blank. Also I know there was a Solid State Recorder in the works which could also eliminate the cabling issue, but I have not seen one so I will again let others fill in this blank. The camera does not have a built in downconverter, however; Panavision makes a nifty one which will snap in place where the deck goes, powers its self and outputs standard def video in either 4:3 or 16:9. Otherwise you have to slap on a Evertz downconverter or similar. The Genesis also has its own run/stop cable, both Bartech and Preston sell Genesis cables so it is only a matter of purchasing the appropriate cables. The PCM (Panavision camera Mount) is also different from the lightweight and XL, However; the Genesis usually comes with a steadicam PCM which is light and will mount right to your cheese plate. It also comes with a Low-Mode Bracket but I believe the image can be flipped in the camera, eliminating the need for one. On a parting note the genesis is particularly power hungry, batteries are a huge issue! but Dionic-90s, Power Cubes, or other similar Li-Ion batteries should power the camera adequately.
Hope This Helps,
Chris Flurry
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#4 Brant S. Fagan SOC

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:06 AM

Gents--

Here are the Lemo connectors for camera power on the Genesis:

FGJ.3B.308.CYMD-7Z This is a straight connector.

FHJ.3B.308.CYMD-7Z This is a 90* connector. I recommend this over the straight as the chassis size of the straight connector plus strain relief can interfere with your shoulder.

GMA.3B.090.DN is the strain relief

Here are the pin-outs for the 8p LEMO:

Pin#1 12v ground
Pin#2 12v ground
Pin#3 24v ground
Pin#4 24v+
Pin#5 12v+
Pin#6 12v+
Pin#7 12v+
Pin#8 12v ground

Remember, the Genesis is a 12v DC camera. You can run the beastie off a 24v DC battery as long as you have the correct cables.

If you luck out and get the SSRs, try and make up a dual Anton Bauer plate that you can velcro to the rear of the camera/SSR package to allow for better in-line balance rather than use the top-mounting dual battery plate or whale tail bracket. This flat, two plate setup would also work with the SRW-1 deck attached. This combination can also help if you are not using Primo primes.

Good luck and try and pretend it's not a BL-4 even if it feels like it!

Best,

Brant
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#5 RonBaldwin

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:52 AM

I have limited experience with the Genesis (only flew it once for a few hours) but it was far easier and lighter than I had expected. Had to drag one bnc -- bummer, but not too big a deal with the camera's mass. I was lucky to have the SSR flash drive thingy and Panavision brought me a pigtail cable to power it from my pro. It was 33 lbs total with the following:
Genesis body, SSR deck, 2 preston dm-1 motors, Hill pana bracket/2 rods, low mode, 35 primo (5 lbs), cinetape, clip-on mb with arf, 4x5 filter + pola, pwr/aks cables.

no problem if you have a newer sled (no matter the make) with a-b batts, I had to rig up a bit more pwr on my older pro sled with the ni-cads.

rb
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#6 Charles Papert

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 09:28 AM

Good notes Chris, if may expand/add my thoughts to them:

(the camera and SRW-1 Deck together) the current draw is around 15 amps. If you detach the Deck from the camera and mount it on the SRPC-1 video processor and have a grip carry it, the current draw drops to about 10 amps.


Anecdotally i.e. from Panavision techs I have heard 11 amps combined and 5-6 amps for camera alone--having never flown as a one-piece but many hours (including currently) as a two-piece rig, I tend to support the lower claim as my Dionics do pretty well with the camera (it's something akin to the power draw of a modern 35mm camera while running).

When having a grip carry the deck you will be tethered by two BNC cables.


Only one for 4:2:2 recording, two required for 4:4:4.

You can also go the fiber route to eliminate all this mess, but i know nothing about that so I will let others fill in that blank. Also I know there was a Solid State Recorder in the works which could also eliminate the cabling issue, but I have not seen one so I will again let others fill in this blank.


Have done both, the SSR is quite nice but expensive and hard to get. Personally I don't see the need to add batteries at the top as Brant notes, I have 3 perfectly good ones at the bottom of the rig and I thought it was a nice flying package. We were due to get the SSR's on "Fired Up" (which opened this past weekend) for a good sized one'r in that movie, they didn't arrive in time so we made do with the tape deck on the backpack and everyone scrambling around behind me. Finally we got three of them and all was well in the world.

Otherwise you have to slap on a Evertz downconverter or similar.


Rusty, you may want to check out (or have your local rental house check out) the Redbyte Decimator, made right there in Oz. Very good and very small/inexpensive downconverter (www.redbytedesign.com), good to have in the kit.
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#7 Brant S. Fagan SOC

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:10 AM

Charles and Rusty--

My suggestion about the batteries rigged on top was based on the desire to keep my post compacted all the way and since we were using "Z" series primes rather than Primos, the additional weight at the rear of the camera made for better expanded mass above the gimbal.

I actually prefer the fiber system as the power comes in through the jumper.

Since this system requires dragging some type of cable, it might as well power the camera!
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#8 Charles Papert

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 10:13 PM

Would have thought that having less weight on the camera would have contributed more to keeping the post compacted (obviously as the camera weight increases, the gimbal raises until such time as one has to extend the post)...?

I found a pic of my Genesis/SSR setup--true enough this was a Primo show but looks to me like I've got the post plenty expanded, more than I would have liked. Obviously differences in sled weight could attribute to this (mine is a tad light with the Dionics) but still...just goes to show, we all attack these things differently.

Regarding the fiber, of course every fiber system is different and vary from carrying a plenthora of data and power (the Evertz is the only one I know of that does the latter) down to duplicating a single HD-SDI cable and no more, which means two separate fiber cables required to carry 4:4:4. I'm currently working with the Copperhead supplied through Panavision that does HD-SDI and camera data, but can't power the camera, unfortunately.
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#9 Brant S. Fagan SOC

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 06:28 AM

Let me say this. The configuration about which I have described concerns a light set of lenses and the need to power the camera/SSR combination. Given those needs, the solution was to add a plate with (2) Dionics for power to the rear of the combo to allow for reasonable balance fore and aft. With Primos, this need does not exist.

As for Post and Gimbal position, the configuration of my sled is such that I needed to move the camera aft to maintain dynamic balance while still not needing to drop the post.

With the fiber system I used last, power and data flow along the standard SMPTE fiber system. The fiber adapater was custom designed and engineered by Abby Levine and Barry Minerly, two of the top DIT and engineering guys in the business. With their setup, my ACs had nothing to do with reload while just handling lenses and focus duties. I do hope that these guys start selling this system because not powering that camera is a dream come true!

Just trailing that tiny fiber jumper was truly simple and was much less obtrusive than multiple video cables slapping around.
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#10 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:04 PM

"The fiber adapater was custom designed and engineered by Abby Levine and Barry Minerly, two of the top DIT and engineering guys in the business."

I've been using this set-up on the Tandem unit of "Gossip Girl." Abby & Barry are fantastic. They understand our needs too and are simply great guys. The F23 with their fiber system is fine. Sure, I'd prefer no cables, but that light jumper is not too much worse than a BNC jumper and it gives them complete control as well as powers the camera.
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#11 Jim Hurwitz

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

Would have thought that having less weight on the camera would have contributed more to keeping the post compacted (obviously as the camera weight increases, the gimbal raises until such time as one has to extend the post)...?

I found a pic of my Genesis/SSR setup--true enough this was a Primo show but looks to me like I've got the post plenty expanded, more than I would have liked. Obviously differences in sled weight could attribute to this (mine is a tad light with the Dionics) but still...just goes to show, we all attack these things differently.

Regarding the fiber, of course every fiber system is different and vary from carrying a plenthora of data and power (the Evertz is the only one I know of that does the latter) down to duplicating a single HD-SDI cable and no more, which means two separate fiber cables required to carry 4:4:4. I'm currently working with the Copperhead supplied through Panavision that does HD-SDI and camera data, but can't power the camera, unfortunately.


Hi Charles!

It has been a while! I have just joined the Forum, and noticed your post. Let me correct a slight misconception: all current CopperHead systems can, in fact, deliver power as well as the plethora of video, data and audio signals. However, it requires the addition of the "PowerPlus" accessory, which is in the inventory of many rental houses, but not ALL of them. In addition, you must use the heaveier, and less flexible "hybrid" cable (with copper wires in it) instead of the thin, flexible "tactical" fiber cable that you are using from Panavision.

You might be interested to know that we are rolling out the next generation of CopperHead technology over the next few months, including several models that are Dual Link capable, each of which can work on the tactical fiber cable, or the hybrid cable to deliver power to the rig... More info to come when I can release it (but look out for CopperHead models 3400, DLV and "Fiber Buddy").

Best,

Jim Hurwitz
Product Manager, Camera Systems (CopperHead)
Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc.
jhurwitz@telecast-fiber.com
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#12 Charles Papert

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 03:16 AM

Well, that was what Panavision told me--and of course that post was from 10 months ago.

Good news on the new products, although I think the days of cabled Steadicam for film-style production are fortunately coming to a close soon as more onboard recording options come on line. We were never meant to be cabled to begin with!
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