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#1 Nicholas Davidoff

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:08 PM

I searched the forum and couldn't find a topic on this -

Chiropractors and Chiropractic manipulation.
Obviously a hotly debatable subject with many people split over the benefits and risks of these procedures.

Although I'm in good general health a few people have recommended a chiropractor while others have warned against. I got a couple of adjustments done by two different respectable "doctors" and I can't say the experience was gratifying. I haven't felt any negative effects nor have I felt any positive either. The process of having my neck and back crunched did not feel natural or healthy to me. The consultation felt alot like a manipulative sales pitch and some of the "science" seemed very sketchy. The doctors both explained to me that my left hip is lower than my right and my right arm is stronger than my left, my left leg is longer than my right etc... Although I couldn't see any of these things personally, I'm no Quasimodo. I heard later that they give this same schpiel to everyone. And the manipulations they do are basically the same for everyone as well. I also hear some have died from strokes after neck manipulation.

I'm not against Chiropractic care. My feelings are mixed. I've learned much about proper posture, nutrition, stretching and exercise to keep a healthy spine. So I'd love to hear from some of you about how chiropractic has affected your work and livelihood over the long term. Any stories positive and negative would be very helpful.

~ Nick
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#2 chris fawcett

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:45 AM

I've tried a few bone crackers in my time. I'm not impressed. Quackery, I'd say.

Try some Alexander Technique, if you're the patient type.

Sorry to be so negative :(

Chris
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#3 Tom Schnaidt

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:56 AM

Nick,

I am Usually pretty sceptical about most things. But I have tried chiropractic. the last twojobs were heavy hand held and steadi, the steadi was actually much more comfortable than the HH, which left me with severe discomfort in my left shoulder (yes the opposite of HH shoulder) My visits often gave good immediate relief and sometimes brief minor relief. I have, because of much moving around and being in different places for jobs, had a wide exposure to different practitioners. And while I have found no miracle cure, I have found some relief and much, if slow, improvement. Since the motion picture health care covers up to 20 visits/year, I am not worried about the sales pitch. Now, I will say that having been to many pracs (4-5), some have the "touch" and some just don't. we tend to seek out more "holistic" pracs who see their role as part of a bigger approach to your health maintenance.

I am in good health, and while i do have some disc degeneration my overall spinal condition is good (for almost 40). I find the science of chiro compelling and believable enough... so you get a strong but somewhat qualified yes vote.

good luck, and keep yourself strong and flexible (yoga poses can be huge help keeping yourself flexible).

Tom
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#4 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:48 PM

My martial arts instructor is a Chinese medical doctor. I get acupuncture about once per month (sometimes more if I have a perticular problem). In addition to the needles, he adjusts me at the end of each visit. I have been doing steadicam since 1998 and have never had an injury of any kind (and most of what I do is crazy, running, jumping, twisting camera work). I credit my lack of injury mostly to the acupuncture and the martial arts (which keeps me flexible).

So, if you are getting the work done by a qualified professional, I think it is very helpfull.
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#5 chris fawcett

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:12 AM

Below is a link to an article from the British Medical Journal about the Alexander Technique.

You can register for free, and read other articles about randomized trials of acupuncture, chiropractic, etc. It's hard to do a double blind trial of chiropractic, since the 'placebo' would problematic, though in comparison trials, it comes off badly. Double blind trials have been done with acupuncture, with qualified acupuncturists putting needles in completely irrelevant places; it comes off badly too.

http://www.bmj.com/c...ourcetype=HWCIT

Stand up straight!

Chris
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#6 Aaron Medick SOC

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:43 PM

I also recommend against Chiropractors in General. There are a few who are good. Most are BONE CRUSHERS. I did have a great one in Upstate NY who got me through high school sports, college sports, and my early grip/electric career. She worked muscles and never forced anything. After 12 great years the effect was less each time. I have tried 5 others all highly recommended and had bad experiences with all. They twisted me this way and that, I felt worse. when I called a few days later, One told me that it is common and it would take 10 session to fix me. I was stupid enough to pay for 5 more before I gave up on that one.

The best advise I ever received on the topic is If you have an impact injury then you may need to be adjusted by a chiropractor. If you have a Chronic Problem it is most likely Muscular. If it is Muscular and you have the bones forced back into "PROPER ALIGNMENT" the muscle will simply pull the bones back out of place. Many people go to chiropractors once or twice a week to be adjusted. It can relieve the pain, but will most likely never fix the problem.

I agree with the others, try Yoga, Martial Arts, the Alexander technique (it has helped me a lot.) All can be great and you can hurt yourself doing all. Find an instructor that doesn't push you and concentrates on proper alignment. The class should not feel like a work out for the first few months, at least.

Anyway, that works for me. I'm not sold either way on acupuncture. I have never had good results, but people I respect have.
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#7 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:15 PM

I'd have to say Karate had me in the best shape of my post sports life, but being the full contact style of World Oyama also left me limping from the dojo... I had to stop when I got serious about steadicam. I do love cycling also, but being in midtown Atlanta is just about like a contact sports it's self... gonna give the abs workout a go... as soon as I put down the Boddington :huh:
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#8 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:40 PM

Oyama is continuous sparing with gloves, head and feet right? How long did you train for?
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#9 Amando Crespo

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:41 PM

So that nobody dares to said the truth?... Equilibrate body and healthy begins in happy mind....
happy with your work, good feeding, a smile when you comeback home (your wife I said)... No problems with 1st director assistant... or DP... No problems with clients.... Any way....NO STRESS allowed. Time to spend your life...time for your family... good friends (steadicam ops also)...
It´s a very good way of live, your´s and your work... Time to do sports are essential.... But a strong mind is so important like a strong body.
....Ups!...I think´s the way.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#10 Nicholas Davidoff

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 04:50 AM

Thanks alot for the info guys, great stuff!

It seems to me that chorpractic has it's proper applications and works for certain people with certain conditions. But I'm staying the HELL away from it unless it's a last resort. Based on my research, the horror stories FAR outweigh the success stories.

As far as martial arts, that gets a huge vote from me. I did Karate growing up, then got deep into MMA for a few years and took my share of beatings, nowadays I'll train Muay Thai for some great cardio. No doubt, the grace and movement, balancing and footwork disciplines of martial arts are a huge complement to steadicam work. I can also recommend yoga, swimming, cycling, just about any low impact sport and stretching to maintain a strong body. Also, the stronger your abs, the stronger your back, period. So lots of abs and core work. I haven't tried the Alexander Technique but look forward to checking it out.

A few other discoveries I can share in the area of nutritional supplements -

Glucosamine Chondroitin with MSM - Proven medical results for rebuilding and maintaining strong cartilage, bones and spinal discs. http://www.pubmedcen...gi?artid=165439

Hydrolized Collagen - Similar to the above with equal benefits.

Here are some interesting (slightly experimental) products to keep an eye on -

Mesenchyme - Bovine stem cells. Taken orally, these stem cells are said to help rebuild any damaged or detereorated cells of the body. A very new technology in the U.S. from Europe. I have yet to try it but have heard some interesting things. Read more here - http://www.cocoonnut..._mesenchyme.php

Oral HGH - Or Chrysalis. It's an oral spray of Human Growth Hormone. Many of you have probably heard about HGH. Although I haven't tried it, I've read that it has dramatic effects on preventing and slowing bone and cartilage deterioration.

Obviously, messing with your genetics can have it's dangers, so I'm curious if anyone else here has any experience with these supplements? Any other supplements you can recommend?
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#11 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:23 AM

Oyama is continuous sparing with gloves, head and feet right? How long did you train for?

no gloves or head protection, only shin pads. They are full contact, bare hand and foot. You can not punch to the face or head, but knee or kick is acceptable.

I trained a little over two 3 years. I miss it, great cardio.

I would add that Palates is a great way to strengthen and get the center core back into shape, it's a bit more controlled and able to focus on direct areas. If one was recovering from an injury, look into it and CONSULT with your doctor about it.

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#12 nealnorton

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:06 AM

The back crackers base their "technique" on the idea of "subluxations" of the spine. No one has ever been able to identify a "subluxation" and it has been proven that different chiros will identify these "abnormal" spots from xrays in completely different areas. The whole concept is fantasy.

Suggestion and placebo are the real basis for the whole operation. Crack your knuckles. . . congratulations! you have just done an "adjustment" pay yourself $40 and repeat in 10 days.

There are real dangers involved with the chiros: 1) Never ever let one twist your head in order to "pop" your neck. There are enough documented cases of ruptures of the arteries that run along the spine resulting in serious injury (death) following this procedure that it should be avoided. Do a web search. Scary stuff. 2) Don't let them x-ray you. This is a big cash operation for most chiros and they can't read them anyway. No one has ever identified a "subluxation" on x-ray. You don't need all that radiation, do you? Save the exposure for radiologist and ortho guys that can really read the films. 3) Never let a chiro touch a child. See the web site 'Chirobase' and 'quackwatch' for more information about this issue. 4) If you have a serious injury, seeing a chiro could delay your seeing a medical doctor and result in a longer recovery or heaven forbid, a mis-diagnosis that could have serious consequences. There are honest chiros that will send a patient to an MD if it looks like a good idea. . . But is your chiro able to make that call?

Do a web search on chiropractic and the history and politics involved. Very interesting story. Pretty amazing that this silly shit has gone on for so long.

The only quackery even funnier than chiro is "homeopathy" which, by the way, many chiros embrace.

Neal Norton
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#13 denis moran

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:29 PM

My wife is a physician so I am a bit biased. I was speaking with a Physician who had been a chiropractor in China and the US for about 7 years before he became a physician. He said that after he studied overall medicine... he would NEVER go to a chiropractor. His explanation was that it was like putting oil on a broken gate. It may relieve the symptoms for a while but unless the gate is fixed.. It will break and you'll be a lot worse off.

As for "Homeopathic medicines": The big pharm companies run tests constantly to see if they can bottle homeopathic medicines with some other chemicals and sell them to the world. The problem is... They can't get them to work. I read an article about one of the major companies talking about how cheap it would be to repackage some of these products and they would make a killing. The reason they don't is because they say that they couldn't get FDA approval for something that is "unprovable".

Denis
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#14 Tim Fabrizio

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:44 PM

I am believer in the mantra of Jerry Holloway...proper operating and setup actually strengthens the back. Steadicam and HH are very grueling on the back and shoulders, so proper operating and postitioning is SO important. As one DP told me about good HH operating, "Tuck, Flex and Clench." Tuck the elbows, flex the abs and clench the butt cheeks.
Good stretching RIGHT after your day is over is so key. Its is so easy to go home and crash after wrap, but a good long stretch while the muscles are warm will aid in a speedy and proper recovery.
Chiropractice=Quackopractice
Be well.
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#15 Dave Isern

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:26 PM

I grew up with chiropractic and I swear it's why I never get headaches and am rarely 'under the weather'. It's at least good for circulation and getting your spine 'set back to default'. In high school wrestling, I painfully pinched a nerve and only chiropractic could fix the problem. For lesser issues..............a lot can be done by just sleeping on the floor.
Stretching is probably the best way to prevent issues from arising.

I'm not impressed with many chiropracters either. Always choose a guy/gal with drop table and/or has a small portable drop table. Get a referal from a friend.

The science of Chiropractic is sound and most forget that most of your body's nervous system runs through your spine. People get accustomed to nerves mildly pinched. If problems going unchecked for too long tax your body and eventually damage the discs between your vertebrae. Some problems can be easily fixed by a good chiropractor. Many people take pills which don't fix any structural problems.

Actually, I get free chiropractic from a cousin so........
......I'm partial.

My two bits,
Dave

www.daveisern.com
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