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3D Rig with two Sony's F23


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#1 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:32 PM

Here are two pictures of a huge 3D setup :

The sled is a modified PRO with a custom base, with on top two Sony's F23 cameras :

Posted Image

Posted Image

The positioning of the second camera below the Donkey Box (and even below the Gimbal) is quiet smart.

The operator is Julian Chojnacki on the shooting of "Final Destination 4"

I sent him a PM to ask if he could chime in to share his experience.

K.
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#2 Joshua Harrison

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 05:21 PM

Some of the Ac's working on my movie here in New Orleans, worked on Final Destination 4. They were telling me about this rig, but I haven't seen pictures till now. Apparently the bottom stage moves to compensate for the lens convergence that happens during the shot. As the focus and convergence move so does the bottom stage. I'm curious to hear from Julian how well that worked for him.

Josh
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#3 BJMcDonnell SOC

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 05:51 PM

That is pretty wild! I wonder how Julians back is after that shoot. That rig looks heavy! Cool stuff though. I wonder if it will work in the AR ;) just kidding! Would love to hear about the experience of flying that pig cables and all! My buddy John Stradling was the convergence puller on that film. He had to go train to do it. Crazy

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#4 Amando Crespo

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 08:45 PM

Here are two pictures of a huge 3D setup :

The sled is a modified PRO with a custom base, with on top two Sony's F23 cameras :

Posted Image

Posted Image

The positioning of the second camera below the Donkey Box (and even below the Gimbal) is quiet smart.

The operator is Julian Chojnacki on the shooting of "Final Destination 4"

I sent him a PM to ask if he could chime in to share his experience.

K.



Uffff!!!!. Where is the limit for a steadicam operator?.....

(NO LIMITS.... IT´S ONE "THING" OF OUR WORK....)..... UFF.... I´m going to the bed....So tyred after to see it....
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#5 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 12:25 PM

With a rig like that I think I would want to be hardmounted on a segway or something for most of the shoot.

~Jess
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#6 Jon Beattie

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 08:04 AM

With a rig like that I think I would want to be hardmounted on a segway or something for most of the shoot.

~Jess


You would not want to be harmounted on a segway for that.

One thing that I discoverd (and should have already thought of) is that the weight of whatever rig your flying has a big influence on the segway. She excelerates if the rig's mass is moved foward and can be stopped by pulling the rig in.

With a really heavy rig you feel much less in control. I weigh 190lbs so If I have a 50lb load your talking about more than 25% of your own body weight that the segway listens to.

For the few people I've taught how to use it. After they get used to the handsfree with no rig I put them in softmount. The weight of the mass is closer to your body, and the vest gives us feedback. It is better to learn that way before going hardmount.

Its funny you would think "oh segway, let me fly all the weight the arm could handle. No problem." But I find I still prefer a lighter setup. This way the ratio of me to the mass of the rig is lower and I have to "fight" less.

For shots that involve alot of manuavering or really heavy loads I go softmount.

The heaviest rig I've put up is a f900 with meranda and an onboard battery. (I need one of those jumper cables to trick the meranda). Did it hard and soft and the crew didn't know it but it was a bit hairy feeling for me sometimes.

I doubt I would fly (2) f23's and with all that huge mattbox it would just add another dangerous piece. Not being able to see.

But check in with me after another year of flying while I glide.
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#7 Lukas Franz

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 10:34 AM

I'm wondering if Julian has received twice his daily rate for that job. Absolutely crazy in my mind. One F23 with acc. is pain enough.
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#8 RonBaldwin

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 10:41 AM

I'm wondering if Julian has received twice his daily rate for that job. Absolutely crazy in my mind. One F23 with acc. is pain enough.



I feel the same way about the A/R ops, nothing like adding 12 to 15 lbs to your sled and holding it farther from your body! My discs are bulging just thinking about it -- bring on the Lisagav!

we are a dime a dozen now days.

rb
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#9 Ed Moore

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 12:10 PM

Ouch!

How do you handle focus on these 3D shoots? Two focus receivers set to the same channel as a single transmitter?
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#10 Henry Gelhart

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 03:33 PM

With a rig like that I think I would want to be hardmounted on a segway or something for most of the shoot.

~Jess



Yes. I think I would be dead at the end of the day! He should wear a Walter Klassen Vest.
I've tried a 3D Cam (IMAX stuff) with a Ultra2 Vest... No way!! And it was just for about 5min...
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#11 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 06:40 PM

I've tried a 3D Cam (IMAX stuff) with a Ultra2 Vest... No way!! And it was just for about 5min...


And he is 55 years old...

What is your age again ?

Those kids... :rolleyes:

K.
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#12 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 10:26 PM

Yes. I think I would be dead at the end of the day! He should wear a Walter Klassen Vest.
I've tried a 3D Cam (IMAX stuff) with a Ultra2 Vest... No way!! And it was just for about 5min...



While the Klassen is a fantastic product it doesn't work for everyone.
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#13 Philippe Bordelais

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 05:55 AM

This is a pretty crazy story!

As I work around Steadicam developments since many years, I have been approached by Amak for the preparation of a 3D movie starting end of last September.
Because of post production issues, they asked me if I could develop a special sled that could carry 2 SONY 900R and the 3D module.
This was challenging and I started to work on this!

With the help of Alain Derobe, a famous 3D DOP, I tried to find technical solutions to mix Steadicam and 3D technologies.
One of the main difficulties is to regulate the distance between the camcorders from 0 to 5? during the shot, without compromising the balance.
Also, the 3D module must weight around 4 kgs instead of 10/15.
I was quite often turning around solutions and would have loved to find some help and discuss with someone.
During my design process, I was not sure to make it successfully until the first tests, but finally everything worked perfectly during the movie. Fortunately because the shooting conditions were similar to the traditional Steadicam shooting.

Now that I see the pictures of Julian?s work, I simply can?t believe it!!

Of course the second vertical camera must be under the gimbal unless you have very lightweight cameras.
In this configuration, my system can support cameras up to 8kgs each. (Sony HD combos, RED, 235?)
For running the 2 focus motors parallel, I used the C-Motion system with the new 3D software protocol.
The cameras translation is motorised too, without influence the sled balance.
I suppose Julian has affected left eye to the vertical cam, as I did also, to have a better monitor?s visibility, which is the opposite of a standard 3D module.
This brings an additional work on post production: not good for the steadicam reputation as always !!!

Best,

Philippe Bordelais, Abracam Sarl



Posted Image


Posted Image


Posted Image
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#14 RobVanGelder

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 12:50 AM

I think there is a good solution for this: SI mini 2K camera heads, capturing to raw with laptops or other hard disk capture.

Look at P+S Technik

http://www.pstechnik.de/

Rob
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#15 chris fawcett

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 03:54 AM

With a rig like that I think I would want to be hardmounted on a segway or something for most of the shoot.

~Jess


You would not want to be harmounted on a segway for that.

One thing that I discoverd (and should have already thought of) is that the weight of whatever rig your flying has a big influence on the segway. She excelerates if the rig's mass is moved foward and can be stopped by pulling the rig in.

With a really heavy rig you feel much less in control. I weigh 190lbs so If I have a 50lb load your talking about more than 25% of your own body weight that the segway listens to.

For the few people I've taught how to use it. After they get used to the handsfree with no rig I put them in softmount. The weight of the mass is closer to your body, and the vest gives us feedback. It is better to learn that way before going hardmount.

Its funny you would think "oh segway, let me fly all the weight the arm could handle. No problem." But I find I still prefer a lighter setup. This way the ratio of me to the mass of the rig is lower and I have to "fight" less.

For shots that involve alot of manuavering or really heavy loads I go softmount.

The heaviest rig I've put up is a f900 with meranda and an onboard battery. (I need one of those jumper cables to trick the meranda). Did it hard and soft and the crew didn't know it but it was a bit hairy feeling for me sometimes.

I doubt I would fly (2) f23's and with all that huge mattbox it would just add another dangerous piece. Not being able to see.

But check in with me after another year of flying while I glide.

Sorry about the massive quoting, and the late reply.

Jon,

I have exactly the opposite experience of using the Handsfree. The heavier the rig, the better control I have. Also, I way prefer hard-mount. I'd jump at a chance to fly that rig.

I wonder what could be the reason for our differing experiences?

Yes. I think I would be dead at the end of the day! He should wear a Walter Klassen Vest.
I've tried a 3D Cam (IMAX stuff) with a Ultra2 Vest... No way!! And it was just for about 5min...

While the Klassen is a fantastic product it doesn't work for everyone.

I'm in complete agreement with Eric here. It doesn't work for me. (Julian is displaying great operating posture; that helps a lot.)

Chris
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