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Thompson HD and Bartech, no match


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#1 JobScholtze

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:57 PM

Worked with the new Thompson HD wireless system today. Its pretty new, so this was the first time we used it.

Just like to older SD set, it works with 2 signals. 2.5 ghz for the video feed, and 450.000 mhz for data signals. The bartech is around 900 mhz i believe, and my sennheiser intercom/inearset is 844.000 mhz. No sweat you should think. As soon as i fire up the camera, it blows the bartech out of the water. Also interference on my intercom system. So removing the reciever from intercomsystem to my lower pocket or even lower to my socks, made a hughe difference. The bartech is on my rig, so not much choice to move it around. It worked for 4 meters, and then i get red lights.
I have 2 bartech sets, and try'd them both. Also tryd all channels. We suspect that becose its HD signal, the transmitter on the camera has a powerfull signal. 4 times as much as normal sd.
Gives to think whats next to your head.

A buddy of mine has an old seitz, and that worked just fine. Its on 89mhz i believe.
I get a bit of a funny feeling about this. The just invent something new, and we get the troubles and its our problem.
Great, HD, gotta love it NOT

btw, the transvideo monitor on HD worked just great. Just dont use a porto, and your fine.

Job
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#2 JobScholtze

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:48 PM

Riiiiiight, i finally hit the nail, after a few hours of trying to figure out why my bartech isnt working with that HD camera. The tech guys told me that the rf outputs on the HD are the same power and frequentie as the sd version, wich never caused me any problem. Well, we found it out today. The HD signal has more information, so it uses more bandwith.

As the wireless camera has HD-SDI out, i use the V3 mk-v box and postcable. As i also have a transvideo HD, i am fine.


WRONG.



Its the mk-v post cable. Its to thin, so the rf signal goes true the cable, makes the cable a sort of antenna, and blows everything near the sled away. ( bartech, inears, etc etc )

Removing the videocable from the camera, and all is fine. I now have to use a extern videocable from the camera to the monitor to be able to focus, and that works great. So, i have to search for a better postcable, as this one totally sucks.

Job
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#3 Rob Vuona SOC

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 06:32 PM

Riiiiiight, i finally hit the nail, after a few hours of trying to figure out why my bartech isnt working with that HD camera. The tech guys told me that the rf outputs on the HD are the same power and frequentie as the sd version, wich never caused me any problem. Well, we found it out today. The HD signal has more information, so it uses more bandwith.

As the wireless camera has HD-SDI out, i use the V3 mk-v box and postcable. As i also have a transvideo HD, i am fine.


WRONG.



Its the mk-v post cable. Its to thin, so the rf signal goes true the cable, makes the cable a sort of antenna, and blows everything near the sled away. ( bartech, inears, etc etc )

Removing the videocable from the camera, and all is fine. I now have to use a extern videocable from the camera to the monitor to be able to focus, and that works great. So, i have to search for a better postcable, as this one totally sucks.

Job


So . . .Job, , wait . . .you took the internal cable out of the sled? No ? you mean you just took it out of the loop and now you are using an external direct cable to allow the HD to travel to the RF Transmitter properly. That doesn't make sense either?! Ok now I am confused . . . .


From the Thompson you took the HD/SDI signal directly out of the camera into the RF transmitter, right?

Then you took the other HD/SDI signal from the camera out to your sled via the post wiring and you still had the RF interference.?

The Thompson HD has two outputs if I recall, so why would you be sending HD Rf through your post wiring?

am I wrong in understanding?

But for the record, the HD cable that tiffen has and is using in the Ultra, I used to wire a direct line down my post and it works great.
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#4 JobScholtze

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 07:08 PM

No, sorry rob, i didnt make myself clear i guess.

The thompson wireless camera only has a HD output on the back of the camera. So, to be able to get a picture to your camera, i use a bnc cable to my jbox and down below on my dbox i wire it to my monitor. So the signal travels true the post cable. The rf that the camera sends to the truck disturbe also the hd signal in my postwire and screws thing up.

The thompson 8000 has 2 outputs, and the truck can give you the vf output. But the cant do that with the wireless version. So its back to the downconvertion i guess. Or what i did today is wire the camera directly into my monitor, but that means a cable outside, and that sucks. Anyway, i payd to much for something that dasnt work. No if i could find a tech who could make me a decent postcable
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#5 Rob Vuona SOC

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 11:23 PM

No, sorry rob, i didnt make myself clear i guess.

The thompson wireless camera only has a HD output on the back of the camera. So, to be able to get a picture to your camera, i use a bnc cable to my jbox and down below on my dbox i wire it to my monitor. So the signal travels true the post cable. The rf that the camera sends to the truck disturbe also the hd signal in my postwire and screws thing up.

The thompson 8000 has 2 outputs, and the truck can give you the vf output. But the cant do that with the wireless version. So its back to the downconvertion i guess. Or what i did today is wire the camera directly into my monitor, but that means a cable outside, and that sucks. Anyway, i payd to much for something that dasnt work. No if i could find a tech who could make me a decent postcable


Your flying the MK-V Nexus right?
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#6 chris fawcett

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 04:52 AM

No if i could find a tech who could make me a decent postcable

Hi Job,

Do you know Edwin at Etkon? he's done some great work for me, and he's not hard to pay. Great guy too. Call me for details.

Good luck,

Chris
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#7 JobScholtze

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:26 AM

Yes rob, great rig, poor electronics

Thanks Chris, i'll give you a call this week
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#8 JobScholtze

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 07:11 AM

Yes rob, great rig, poor electronics

Thanks Chris, i'll give you a call this week

Betz tools might come up with a solution. Expensive but final. So be aware if you consider the mk-v sled. Like i said before, the sled hardware is great, the electronics sucks. I emailed Howard this, but of course, no reply.
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#9 Marco Padoan

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:59 AM

Hi guys.
I just bought a MK-V sled with the V3 J an D-boxes. (arriving to sweden this week),
I use a bartech focus reciever. Haven't tried it out yet but you say that
sending HD throu the post to the monitor will mess up the focus-system?

Cheers all! :)

¨¨
Marco
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#10 Sven Joukes

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:39 AM

Hi Marco,

What Job means is this: if you put a wireless camera on the sled, the wireless signal is picked up by the postcable. The cable turns into a sort of antenna, amplifies the signal and blows every other wireless signal (bartech, in-ear monitoring, ...) away. The cable they used is not adequately shielded. If you're not using a wireless camera (ENG style or HD cine), you should be fine getting HD-SDI through the post. Although I heard the MK-V V3 postcable is not even good enough to simply carry HD-SDI. Job's findings actually kept me from upgrading to the V3 electronics...

Best,

Sven
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#11 Marco Padoan

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:18 AM

Ok. Thanks for your answer!
Now that I've ordered the V3 I have to deal with it somehow.

Have a nice day!

M
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#12 JobScholtze

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 05:25 AM

Ok. Thanks for your answer!
Now that I've ordered the V3 I have to deal with it somehow.

Have a nice day!

M

There is a solution in the make, so keep an eye on this post. ( I think from april there will be a great upgrade for mk-v owners ) And its not from mk-v themself, but thats no supprice. ( and its not myself howard, so stop accusing me of taking over mk-v, i dont want your compagny for a million years )
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#13 Iain Baird

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:27 AM

It is a shame that MK-V seems to be in denial about the electronics issues in the Sled as the hardware is very well made. I only have the 4 stage Post and the inline j-box, but it's a nice smooth gimbal and a very solid post; I have however replaced all the wiring. MK-V, along with eliminating the AUX power in the j-box, used either 20AWG or 22AWG wiring, not enough for the Hungry HD cameras. I replaced it all using 16 & 18AWG depending on what plug I was wiring. I also rewired to get the isolated AUX power back, which is needed to if you're going to parallel your power sources. I replaced the post cable with a heavier gauge coiled cable but can't speak to the interference issues as I've never seen them, with the old cable or new. The V3 claims to be HD-SDI compatible but is using a regular Lemo Plug, so the shielding is definitely broken when the signal passes through. This may be what causes the interference?

The Nexus base is a whole other ball game, It's a circuit board design that has all of the electronics built in and the Lemo's are either all attached directly to the board or by using short jumpers (again either 22 or 20AWG wire). It is however possible to rewire it to get an isolated AUX power feed. Phil Cramer, from Panavision Toronto, and I just finished rewiring a Nexus for a local Op. We eliminated the AR feeds and replaced them with an isolated AUX power feed, the result was that we were able to build a 'Y' cable to parallel 2 Batts to power a Camera. We didn't change the post cable so there will still be some Choking of the Power but the two sources definitely helped as the Power now flows through 4 wires instead of 2.

I will say that although I haven't always loved the answers I get, Howard has always addressed all of my inquiries. When I bought my post and j-box the service was great and shipping was prompt. I can't speak to the way he has treated others but he certainly believes in his product and works hard on it. I just wish he would get on board with the AMPERAGE the new HD cameras need.
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#14 JobScholtze

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:38 PM

Sorry Ian, i do disagree with you. He is in deniel with every problem you might have with your equipment. The AR, the electronics, etc. I have tried and tried with this guy. Even send him the results of my test ( hd signal thing ) and even that he denies. I got plenty of emails kept, enought to write a book. Yeah sure, i am happy with the sled minus the electronics. Support sucks. As long as you buy, your great. Asking for garantuee repairs and its very hard to contact him.

Anyway, its over for mk-v now as it seems. BUST


J
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#15 Iain Baird

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 05:12 PM

Sorry Ian, i do disagree with you. He is in deniel with every problem you might have with your equipment. The AR, the electronics, etc. I have tried and tried with this guy. Even send him the results of my test ( hd signal thing ) and even that he denies. I got plenty of emails kept, enought to write a book. Yeah sure, i am happy with the sled minus the electronics. Support sucks. As long as you buy, your great. Asking for garantuee repairs and its very hard to contact him.

Anyway, its over for mk-v now as it seems. BUST


J


I can't disagree with you Job, I was trying to be kind and only mention the positives. In fact, reading it again, it feels very sugar coated as I've been rather frustrated with him a few times. Like I said in my post I never liked his answers to my problems (DENIAL - as you mentioned) and I know that there are a lot of people on this forum that have had bad dealings with him in the past. But personally I've never felt he was out to steal from me or sell me inferior gear, he just couldn't accept that perhaps his sleds had problems and needed to be improved. It's too bad because it was a great concept he had, but the execution was laking. Oh well I guess we'll all have to find another company to take care of our MK-V products if the BUST post is true.

Edited by Iain Baird, 17 March 2009 - 05:16 PM.

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