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Genesis Power Problems


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#1 MarkKaravite

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 01:26 AM

I am currently on a Genesis show, and am having problems powering with the recorder on board. I just got off a 11 week show running an F23 with the same package & no problems, so myself, 1st AC & DIT are all a bit stumped as to why I can't get any decent run times on the Genesis in a 1 piece mode.

Here is what I am flying:

PRO DB3 & Upper Junction Box
XCS 2" carbon fiber post (with heavier guage power wiring)
MK-V Nexus battery base with 3 V mount battery holders.
MK-V Hummingbird LCD
3 Tiffen Powercube batteries

Other AKS on board:

Panatape
Modulus 3000
Archos

The camera's voltage reads over 13v, but when we turn over the VTR, it doesn't stay in record with any regularity. Has anyone had this problem before? It was my understanding that the F23 took a bit more power than the Genesis. Maybe that is not the case, but with 3 Powercubes, I should get at least 45 minutes of run time.

Please nobody go down the path of why am I flying the rig with the VTR. I am doing 90% of the show with the recorder split, but sometimes you just can't have a cable on the shot. The DP allows me to decide what mode the camera is in. I just can't seem to get it to run with the recorder on. We've done some very gymnastic toaster / backpack work, but I'd like to get this working correctly.

Thanks,
Mark
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#2 Jerry Holway

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 01:32 PM

Mark-

curious whether or not all three batteries are in parallel or 2 in parallel at "12" volts and one in series to make "24" volts.

Odd about the voltage reading as well. PowerCubes hot off the charger are 16+ volts. Under load they drop quickly to 15+ and slowly discharge to the "knee" of 13.6 volts - lower than that they have little life, especially at high current draws.

In the original tests of the PowerCubes, 2 in parallel drove the Genesis and recorder (while recording) about 75 minutes, which would translate to 45 so so minutes with a Steadicam and accessories adding to the draw (as you stated it should). 3 in parallel should last much longer than an hour.

Can you measure the total amp draw when recording? (amp meter on sled?) Can you measure the voltage at the power connectors (no load) vs. voltage with camera alone, then camera and recorder? That might help you figure out what's going on.

Jerry
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#3 David Luckenbach

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 11:38 PM

Mark,

I have used the Genesis on my the last 2 films and have had the same power issues using Dionics (when the recorders attached). I am very interested in a solution to the Genesis power draw?

David L.
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#4 Joseph Arena SOC

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:25 AM

Just got back from a show in Louisiana and had the same problem ,
I flly a Pro with Dionics 90 (Batteries are brand new), cine tape ,modulus , preston, Archos.
No way to power up the recorder , I hade to fly with RG 179 hooked to the interface, with the Ghostbuster bag pack man following me ,
it was horrible.....!!!
I also tried to put an A.B. 140 brick but no luck...
I want the SSR back.....
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#5 MarkKaravite

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:23 PM

Jerry,

My sled has 3 batteries in parallel / 12v, so with 3 Powercubes, I agree I should be able to run quite a while. Unfortunately, I have wrapped that show, and never really resolved the problem. We never had the opportunity to measure the load, but the camera voltage was high enough that it should have run (even though it was lower than a hot battery should show).

Now hearing that others have had the same problem with new Dionics, maybe it's something else. I plan on calling Panavision to get their take on this issue.

I'll post any findings of interest.

Hey Joseph,

Were you flying lightweight 4:4:4 cables? I have done this for a couple years, and although the backpack is a hassle, my cables are not bad to operate with. I think they are a better trade off than flying the VTR. On the last movie, we just ran cable back to the DIT, and he had the SRW-1's on his cart. This show, the DIT was hesitant to run cable to his cart, so we flew the backpack.

Thanks,
Mark
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#6 David Luckenbach

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 02:56 AM

Hey Joseph,

Were you flying lightweight 4:4:4 cables? I have done this for a couple years, and although the backpack is a hassle, my cables are not bad to operate with. I think they are a better trade off than flying the VTR. On the last movie, we just ran cable back to the DIT, and he had the SRW-1's on his cart. This show, the DIT was hesitant to run cable to his cart, so we flew the backpack.



I agree about flying the camera without the deck as described... but if you want to shoot above 24 fps. you have to fly the deck.
David L.
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#7 Charles Papert

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 08:56 AM

David:

How goes!

I know that I've run overcranked in two-piece mode, I think we had to drop to 4:2:2 to do so for those shots. I've managed to get through three features and a series with the Genesis and never wore the SRW once. The last show we had the flash mags which of course solves all of the issues in this thread (hopefully those will become more universal).
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#8 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:13 AM

The last show we had the flash mags which of course solves all of the issues in this thread (hopefully those will become more universal).



Nice! I saw those at the Mega Training in Detroit las month... any problems, issues or precautions Charles?

-Alfeo
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#9 Charles Papert

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:09 PM

Not on the operator end of things, they are compact, do the job well, provide a downconverted output if required and you can play back your takes right from the mag (and it jumps directly into record mode, so you can keep watching right up to camera roll). Pretty great.

I guess the only caution I can think of is to make sure not to drop them since they are so hard to get!
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#10 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:03 PM

Not on the operator end of things, they are compact, do the job well, provide a downconverted output if required and you can play back your takes right from the mag (and it jumps directly into record mode, so you can keep watching right up to camera roll). Pretty great.

I guess the only caution I can think of is to make sure not to drop them since they are so hard to get!



Since you're not over loaded with the backpack and can roll for a very long time, do you find that the director is wanting to keep it rolling rather than to cut and stop? This is exactly what RED's w/ flash drives did on my last show... the director and producer would yell to keep it turning over.

Now are you having to roll from the mag, right? I think I remember something to that sort.
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#11 Joseph Arena SOC

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 12:14 AM

Yes Mark I was flying this kind os cables ,
Not to mention that as now days Direcotrs and DP want to see HD picture back at video village ,
so the ghostbuster guy is attached to the monitors , that is what makes even harder for us ,
trying to figure 360`s , fast moves , running and so on.....
it looks like we went back 30 years . Do they call this technology?
sorry.!!!
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#12 Stephen Consentino

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:44 PM

Mark-
Pretty sure the power issue lies in the wire running up the post of the MK-V. I own one and had a similar issue. I even went so far as to hard wire a lithium belt battery up through the sled wiring. It would not work, however, when I ran a heavy gauge power cable external to the rig and right into the camera, the same battery power the camera/recorder no problem. Next time you get a chance, try measuring the voltage/amperage drop going up the post, I bet it's enough to make the difference.

Stephen Consentino
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#13 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 08:55 PM

Mark-
Pretty sure the power issue lies in the wire running up the post of the MK-V. I own one and had a similar issue. I even went so far as to hard wire a lithium belt battery up through the sled wiring. It would not work, however, when I ran a heavy gauge power cable external to the rig and right into the camera, the same battery power the camera/recorder no problem. Next time you get a chance, try measuring the voltage/amperage drop going up the post, I bet it's enough to make the difference.

Stephen Consentino



It is the MK-V wiring. I have posted about it several time. MK-V uses 22ga wire and that is SEVERELY undersized.
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#14 David Luckenbach

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:54 PM

I finally put the Genesis with deck mounted on my PRO Sled powered with Dionics and had no power issues, all worked well...
So the problem seems to be the MK-V internal's? As mentioned with earlier posts.
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#15 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 29 October 2008 - 10:08 AM

Just to clarify something - when you are powering the Genesis with deck off the sled, are you using a Y-Cable? This of course splits the load between two wires up the post and is the standard Panavision power cable for the PRO to Genesis (at least here in New York). Therefore, on the upper stage you are plugging into both the camera output and the AUX output on a PRO junction box. Does the MK-V do something like this?
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