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Any Clipper Ops flying the Red?


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#1 David Michael Rivera

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:41 PM

I'm curious because I'm looking into purchasing a 312 for heavy Red One usage. I flew the Red on a 3A recently, fully loaded with mattebox and filter, mounting rods, follow focus, batts on rig and camera, Red LCD, 12to120mm 16mm lens (I forgot the brand -- we shot 2k), wireless mic receiver, and BFD receiver with Heden motor and brackets. Pre-Steadi mounting, the rig weighed about 35lbs.

Anyone flying the camera with a Clipper loaded with more than a lightweight prime and bare accessories? Were you maxed-out on the arm? Your setup stories would help me in deciding which rig to look at.

Thanks.

David Michael Rivera
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#2 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 02:26 AM

Hi David, I had twelve days flying the RED on my C24 and G-50 arm back in June. You should search out Afton Grant's posts on the RED, he's provided a wealth of information and detailed reports as he always does.

What you can fly is largely determined by the capacity of your arm not the sled though the Clipper series top stage is not as robust as the Ultra2.

My C24 sled alone weighs about 15 lbs which leaves about 35 lbs of payload on the G-50. I've tested my arm up to around 54-55 lbs before it is at the max limit.

I flew the RED with two BFDs, Arri MB, filters, RED LCD, primes and zooms etc but no audio. We also used CF cards instead of a hard drive. We had the breakout box for connectivity, cheese plate, steel rods. It was not near the limit of my arm, nor the weight of a mack'd out F900 which I fly on a regular basis. The loaded F900s definitely push my arm to the 50 lb limit.

What you've got to consider are the types of payloads you'll be flying on a regular basis, and, if the fully loaded RED is going to be your favorite flavor are you better off investing in lightweight RED accessories or an arm with higher capacity? If you're running the G-50 maxed out all the time, I'd think wear and tear will take it's toll quicker than say a G-70 flying at 70% it's capacity.

For me the G-50 / C24 has been a very good value and so far I've flown most of the usual suspects in HD and 35mm film cameras without a problem... close but so far so good. I have not flown the Genesis or F23 nor do I think my rig and arm is suitable for those rigs without compromise. No doubt the day will come where I'll have to step up to either a G-70 arm and an Ultra2 or a PRO arm and rig or XCS rig.

The G-50 / C24 combo has served me very well and until I'm either maxing it out more than 50% of the time or losing jobs because I don't have a large enough rig I don't see a need to drop $30k+ to upgrade.
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#3 Imran Naqvi

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 07:50 AM

The 312 is rated for a 35lb camera package, but I'm curious as to why you're flying the Red with on board batteries? Is it just a balance thing? If not powering the camera through the rig will save you some pounds, and since you're running two batteries on it, you can hotswap so that you don't have to wait 90 seconds for the camera to boot up after it's switched on.
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#4 David Michael Rivera

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 09:24 AM

Thanks for the reply, Robert.

Ideally, I would like to utilize the g-70 arm with the sled... but since I'm considering a new package the Clipper 312 only gets sold with the g-50.

One question: when you shot with the Red on your sled in 4K with 35mm lenses, were you a lot closer to the limits of your arm? The last time I shot in 2k with the 12to120mm zoom (16mm), the 3A arm I was using was very near the ends. The only time I've worked with the Red in 4K (so far) was non-Steadicam with a Cooke Zoom (25to100mm, I believe) and it was beastly.

Of course, each job has it's own lens requirements. On the jobs I would DP and Steadicam, I would know and choose which lenses to go with for Steadicam. On the jobs, I'm not DP'ing, I would request certain lens types.

The Ultra would solve everything for me... but I would have to leave a cup next to my docking stand for donations or shine people's shoes between takes.

Thanks again.
David
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#5 David Michael Rivera

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 09:30 AM

The 312 is rated for a 35lb camera package, but I'm curious as to why you're flying the Red with on board batteries? Is it just a balance thing? If not powering the camera through the rig will save you some pounds, and since you're running two batteries on it, you can hotswap so that you don't have to wait 90 seconds for the camera to boot up after it's switched on.


It was a 3A rental rig on an ultra-low budget shoot. I agree that powering the camera off the rig would work much better and shave some weight.
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#6 Lars Erik

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:19 AM

Ideally, I would like to utilize the g-70 arm with the sled... but since I'm considering a new package the Clipper 312 only gets sold with the g-50.


David,

are you saying that Tiffen won't sell you a package deal with the 70 instead of 50?


LE
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#7 Stephen Vanderspek

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:32 AM

Ideally, I would like to utilize the g-70 arm with the sled... but since I'm considering a new package the Clipper 312 only gets sold with the g-50.


David,

are you saying that Tiffen won't sell you a package deal with the 70 instead of 50?


LE

I recall hearing something to the same effect, however your best bet to check that out would be to contact Frank Rush and get an answer on that question from him. I've mused that the 324 with a G70 and Ultra 2 vest would be a nice combination.
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#8 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:42 AM

Ideally, I would like to utilize the g-70 arm with the sled... but since I'm considering a new package the Clipper 312 only gets sold with the g-50.


I'm pretty sure Tiffen is selling G-70's outright so why don't you buy the Clipper / G-50 package then when and if it's not carrying what you need, sell the G-50 or keep it as a back up and buy a G-70? Again, I don't know what kind of work you are doing but I'm getting a wide variety of work ranging 2-3 days a week and in two years have yet to totally bottom out the G-50. After saying that I'll probably get hammered on my next three jobs!

Also, don't overlook the PRO arms and other rigs out there. There are deals to be had on used gear too. Chris Konash had a tricked out C24 for sale recently but I don't know if he sold it yet but there are frequently good packages available. And one last little tidbit of advice is to make sure you budget for the cables, focus/iris system, cart, cases, transmitters and other extras you'll need. In two years I've invested around $100k in kit and the base price of my rig was only around $40k new. The cheapest cable you'll buy will be about $100, the average around $150-175 and two days ago I spent $630 on a single lightweight 6ft Fiber jumper for live HD shows.

Good luck!
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#9 David Michael Rivera

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 01:25 PM

Ideally, I would like to utilize the g-70 arm with the sled... but since I'm considering a new package the Clipper 312 only gets sold with the g-50.


I'm pretty sure Tiffen is selling G-70's outright so why don't you buy the Clipper / G-50 package then when and if it's not carrying what you need, sell the G-50 or keep it as a back up and buy a G-70? Again, I don't know what kind of work you are doing but I'm getting a wide variety of work ranging 2-3 days a week and in two years have yet to totally bottom out the G-50. After saying that I'll probably get hammered on my next three jobs!

Also, don't overlook the PRO arms and other rigs out there. There are deals to be had on used gear too. Chris Konash had a tricked out C24 for sale recently but I don't know if he sold it yet but there are frequently good packages available. And one last little tidbit of advice is to make sure you budget for the cables, focus/iris system, cart, cases, transmitters and other extras you'll need. In two years I've invested around $100k in kit and the base price of my rig was only around $40k new. The cheapest cable you'll buy will be about $100, the average around $150-175 and two days ago I spent $630 on a single lightweight 6ft Fiber jumper for live HD shows.

Good luck!


The Sales Rep recommended I do just that: buy the Clipper package and then buy the G-70 when I really feel I need it. The problem is that I know what I would like right now...

I would much rather buy a used rig (that's what I've done in the past) but haven't come across anything doable for me yet. I also already own a bunch of accessories (BFD, motors, cables, etc.).

David
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#10 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 07:16 PM

The problem is that I know what I would like right now...


Well David, there seems to be a gap between what you want "right now" and reality unless you've got the money or credit to pony up for a new Ultra2 system or a PRO. I'd love to have a Ultra2 system or a nice XCS and PRO arm and could probably swing it but the reality is I'm not hitting a wall yet with the rig and arm I have. For those few times I've worried about it I've been able to borrow a G-70 from a friend and keep it in my car just in case; so far I've been okay.

Check in with Jerry Holway; he had a custom Ultra he was selling used.
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