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Arm / Back-mount vest / Hardmount Question


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#1 chris fawcett

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 04:47 AM

Hi All,

Does anyone have any experience of arms bending the 'wrong' way, ie. the elbow moves into your body instead of away from it, as normal, while hard-mounted or with a BM vest?

Any fixes, tricks, tips, or advice will be be greatly appreciated.

Fly safe,

Chris
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#2 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:01 AM

Hi Chris, hope you are doing great,

If I understand it right and with the help of your great HF video in mind (now I know for sure you have super powers) I think the problem comes from the fact that the attachment point of the arm is too far away from your body on your side, if it were closer the arm wouldn't be able to bend the wrong way, what do you think ?

K.
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#3 chris fawcett

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 02:46 PM

Hi Kareem,

You are absolutely right. So you have super powers too?

Normally, with the block close to your body, as with a BM vest, your body would keep the arm from bending the wrong way. If you are throwing the leanie around, you really need to have the hard-mount clear of your body. Otherwise, the hard-mount frame blocks you from leaning too. Also, if you are working on a camber, or any situation where the hard-mount-side wheel is higher than the other, you need clearance so the gear doesn't push you around, like the rigid leg saddle in the pedal version can do. I have a solution already, but was curious to know if anyone else had had a better idea.

First, I don't flip the block on the arm. I flip the block on the hard-mount. So the knurled screws we think of as fore-aft adjustments?but in this position, are actually side-to-side adjustments?point towards the body, instead of away from it. This is handy enough for adjusting them, and presents the thinnest side of the hard-mount block to the body, thus increasing clearance. Now the torsion spring in the arm block biases the arm away from the body. I remove the stopper on the block as well, so the arm turns fully out under the effect of the spring. This entirely prevents the arm from buckling towards the body, and gives a really good action.

Since the arm reach is shortened somewhat, I use an F bracket, with the yoke mounting post reversed, just to restore some reach. Reach has not presented itself as a big issue to date on the HF, though I'm sure I'll come across a shot soon that will demand it. What is useful is having the weight of the rig to throw around for instant acceleration and fast cornering. Short reach with a light camera = less acceleration. So far, this solution works beautifully, but I'm sure someone has a better idea.

Incidentally, I tried using the arm on the vest, without the stopper on the block, and loved it. I can get even thinner, and switching to pseudo-goofy seems simpler since the rig can pass really close to the front of the body. I don't miss it.

I should write this up with pictures. Reading it back, I'm not sure I understand it myself.

Keep well!

Chris
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#4 Jon Beattie

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:23 PM

Working with a backmounted vest and having the HF these are things I've been playing with too.

At first I had the Harmount way to far foward and my heart skipped a few beats with the HF taking off or not slowing down at a rate I felt safe with.

At this point I have the post pointed straight up and the hardmount is just above the top of my hip and just foward of it. I've tried the hardmount faced foward like a backmounted vest, facing out like a frontmounted vest and even flipped so the block faces in. I have found I like the arm facing in or out like a frontmounted.

I like the system alittle foward so it doesn't get in the way of my turns to the right. (operating regular)

I've actually been able to operate the system walking next to the HF and controlling the HF through the steadicam's gimbal. Not something that would ever need to be done, I just discovered it could be done.

I'll take some pictures of my setup too.
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#5 chris fawcett

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 03:34 PM

Interesting.

I like the system a little behind my hip for the same reason. When it's front, I find I can't cross the rig in front of my body so easily. I'll try again on your recommendation.

Chris
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#6 Jon Beattie

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 10:07 AM

I went back and watched your video again to see how you had your harmount setup.
I'm going to set mine up like that and see how it feels. But in looking at it feels like it can limit one's operating ability. The post is tilted away which must force the rig into you? With the arm that far back it must limit how much of the arm you can use. I can't think of another time one would ever place the the arm behind them. But I still want to try it to see how it feels. I have no doubt you know better then me. I've had mine a few weeks and you've been working with the tool much longer.
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#7 chris fawcett

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 01:22 PM

Hi Jon,

I'm still experimenting, and I look forward to trying your way too. Unfortunately, that will have to wait to mid August.

My hard-mount post should probably be vertical, but having it slightly off is no problem, because the knurled nuts level the arm. I found that I had enough reach using the inverted f-bracket to extend the arm.

I only briefly tried your way, so can't really give a good assessment. I remember, however, that if I had it for enough forward to avoid banging it with my hip, it would get in the way of moving the rig across my body. If you are indoors, or on level ground, at low speed, you could put the hard-mount right by your hip. I guess we have a long way to go to figure out all the possibilities of this thing.

All the best,

Chris
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#8 Brad Hruboska

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:22 AM

I use the wrong way bend for tight corridors all the time... I find with the Pro arm and the XCS ergo handle I can swithch on the fly with the back mounted vest and keep the sled centered better in a tight corridor. I think Garret made an article about that techniquewhen he shot 'Philadelphia' with Tom Hanks, some time ago in the infamous steadicam newsletter.
I twist the gimbal handle all around the wrong way and the arm follows and assumes the wrong way bend, making the profile much smaller...not comfortable but managable for a few minutes.....
Brado. B)
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