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F23 feature on the horizon


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#1 MarkKaravite

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 11:29 PM

The feature I'm starting in June just committed to the F23. I have read all the postings from late last year, and I have shot with the Genesis.

Are there any recent comments about the F23 I should know about? I am already hearing resistance from the DIT about shooting in 2 piece mode. He has heard of problems when splitting the camera, but all these were operator errors by not having the camera / VTR in the right mode for the shot.

This show has a ton of handheld, and 16 days of Steadicam so far, with more adding every day. Production will not pay for fiber connections, and the one I saw at NAB isn't even available yet. I'm planning on running 2 piece for handheld and Steadicam, and 1 piece for everything else. For power, I like the back mounted battery for handheld, and I'll use a Y Pro to F23 power cable off my sled for Steadicam. I already have the 75 ohm lightweight BNC's I've used with Genesis.

If anyone has some new information that is helpful, I'd appreciate it.

Best regards,
Mark
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#2 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 09:25 AM

Mark,

Can you confirm that it is the same power cable as the Genesis? I have been told that it is & then by others that it is not. What is the scoop? I forgot to look at NAB!

Nice to meet you in person too.

Thanks,

Alec
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#3 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 06:05 PM

The feature I'm starting in June just committed to the F23. I have read all the postings from late last year, and I have shot with the Genesis.

Are there any recent comments about the F23 I should know about? I am already hearing resistance from the DIT about shooting in 2 piece mode. He has heard of problems when splitting the camera, but all these were operator errors by not having the camera / VTR in the right mode for the shot.

This show has a ton of handheld, and 16 days of Steadicam so far, with more adding every day. Production will not pay for fiber connections, and the one I saw at NAB isn't even available yet. I'm planning on running 2 piece for handheld and Steadicam, and 1 piece for everything else. For power, I like the back mounted battery for handheld, and I'll use a Y Pro to F23 power cable off my sled for Steadicam. I already have the 75 ohm lightweight BNC's I've used with Genesis.

If anyone has some new information that is helpful, I'd appreciate it.

Best regards,
Mark


Mark,I recently used the Genesis camera in 2 piece mode. Panavision had a fiber optic link system for it (Telecast Rattler) which converted the SDI output to very thin and flexible fiber optic cable like phone cord. Here is the link for the product :
http://www.telecast-...d/rattler.shtml
Why not get the rental house to buy 2 sets or you buy them and rent it to the company if you anticipate doing this sort of thing in the future. Don't know what they cost. You can get the fiber cable online for cheap.
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#4 Charles Papert

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 08:57 PM

Rattler is great, but did Mark not say that production is balking at fiber...?

I've done three Genesis shows now and have yet to fly the beast one-piece. We were blessed with the new flash mags on the last one but that's a moot point for the F23. Bottom line is that I have yet to see an issue with two-piece recording across two features and a series. Many others have done so (including yourself from the sounds of it) and are doing so as we speak. It's pretty late in the game for anyone to raise red flags about this tried-and-true workflow. Sorry to hear about that.
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#5 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 12:06 AM

Mark,I recently used the Genesis camera in 2 piece mode. Panavision had a fiber optic link system for it (Telecast Rattler) which converted the SDI output to very thin and flexible fiber optic cable like phone cord. Here is the link for the product :
http://www.telecast-...d/rattler.shtml
Why not get the rental house to buy 2 sets or you buy them and rent it to the company if you anticipate doing this sort of thing in the future. Don't know what they cost. You can get the fiber cable online for cheap.


THe only issue with the rattler is audio sync. The Rattler introduces a delay of 1+ Frame iirc
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#6 MarkKaravite

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 12:12 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the great input.

Charles: They did balk at an $800/day fiber system. Hopefully, the Rattlers are less $$, and I can get the DP on my side about on using them. Production is a bit green with digital, so it's an educational process.

Doc: The Rattlers look very interesting. One question, do I need 2 rattlers if we are going dual link? We are using Panavision NY, so I'll check on Rattlers & price from them. Do you have a source for the fiber cables & jumper cable (if different)?

Eric: Good heads up on the delay. Was 1 frame enough to cause problems? I have done jobs with a Sony HDC-950 which has similar delay for the 24fps card, and it was never an issue.

Alec: I was under the assumption that it was the same power cable as Genesis. I'll let you know if I find different. On previous Genesis jobs, I always had them make 2 cables with L connectors at the camera body. They were 12v only, where the block battery cables are 12v/24v. I also have a D tap Y to Genesis cable just in case I have to run the 1 piece beast directly off 2 batteries from the bottom of the sled.

Sorry we didn't get more time to hang out at NAB, I got food poisoning Tuesday morning which killed most of the day. Note to self, stay away from the breakfast buffet at the Hilton!

Take care,
Mark
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#7 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:18 PM

Doc: The Rattlers look very interesting. One question, do I need 2 rattlers if we are going dual link? We are using Panavision NY, so I'll check on Rattlers & price from them. Do you have a source for the fiber cables & jumper cable (if different)?

Eric: Good heads up on the delay. Was 1 frame enough to cause problems? I have done jobs with a Sony HDC-950 which has similar delay for the 24fps card, and it was never an issue.

Alec: I was under the assumption that it was the same power cable as Genesis. I'll let you know if I find different. On previous Genesis jobs, I always had them make 2 cables with L connectors at the camera body. They were 12v only, where the block battery cables are 12v/24v. I also have a D tap Y to Genesis cable just in case I have to run the 1 piece beast directly off 2 batteries from the bottom of the sled.

Sorry we didn't get more time to hang out at NAB, I got food poisoning Tuesday morning which killed most of the day. Note to self, stay away from the breakfast buffet at the Hilton!



Yes you would need two rattlers for dual link.

The sound guys need to know about the delay so they can get a delay box if they are feeding the deck.

It's not the same power cable. the genesis is a split connector (Male/female) and the F23 is a straight 8 pin.

Funny about your food poisoning I got food poisoned on Tuesday night.
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#8 JimBartell

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 01:49 PM

Funny about your food poisoning I got food poisoned on Tuesday night.

Two of our party of four got food poisoning on Tuesday night as well! Our best guess was the polish sausage at the convention center "BBQ" food counter as that was the only thing they ate that the rest of us didn't.

Jim "iron stomach" Bartell
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#9 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 06:44 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the great input.

Charles: They did balk at an $800/day fiber system. Hopefully, the Rattlers are less $$, and I can get the DP on my side about on using them. Production is a bit green with digital, so it's an educational process.

Doc: The Rattlers look very interesting. One question, do I need 2 rattlers if we are going dual link? We are using Panavision NY, so I'll check on Rattlers & price from them. Do you have a source for the fiber cables & jumper cable (if different)?

Eric: Good heads up on the delay. Was 1 frame enough to cause problems? I have done jobs with a Sony HDC-950 which has similar delay for the 24fps card, and it was never an issue.

Alec: I was under the assumption that it was the same power cable as Genesis. I'll let you know if I find different. On previous Genesis jobs, I always had them make 2 cables with L connectors at the camera body. They were 12v only, where the block battery cables are 12v/24v. I also have a D tap Y to Genesis cable just in case I have to run the 1 piece beast directly off 2 batteries from the bottom of the sled.

Sorry we didn't get more time to hang out at NAB, I got food poisoning Tuesday morning which killed most of the day. Note to self, stay away from the breakfast buffet at the Hilton!

Take care,
Mark



Eric is right as usual, 2 pairs needed. I will try and find a source from the guys I worked with. I know it was really cheap. The beauty of that system is the deck can sit on the DIT's cart or an apple box a hundred feet away reducing the thundering herd behind you.
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#10 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 07:31 PM

Eric is right as usual, 2 pairs needed. I will try and find a source from the guys I worked with. I know it was really cheap. The beauty of that system is the deck can sit on the DIT's cart or an apple box a hundred feet away reducing the thundering herd behind you.

Telecast Rattlers Person to talk to is Jim Hurwitz (His email) he can hook you up.

Tell him I sent you.
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#11 Afton Grant

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:12 PM

Eric is right as usual, 2 pairs needed.


2 pairs, or one pair of 2?
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#12 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:14 PM

Eric is right as usual, 2 pairs needed.


2 pairs, or one pair of 2?

I believe it would be two pairs with each pair consisting of a transmitter and a receiver.

~Jess
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#13 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:14 PM

Eric is right as usual, 2 pairs needed.


2 pairs, or one pair of 2?



Two transmitters (red) and two receivers (blue) so two pairs
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#14 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 04:12 PM

Here is a source for fiber cable: www.fiberopticcableshop.com
800 777-6269

Cable #: FC-STST-MB6-15meter These were the 50' cables used. I'm sure you can get it in any length.
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#15 MarkKaravite

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:09 PM

Panavision NY reports that you can run 100' of coax in 2 piece mode. That should be enough cable for handheld and Steadicam modes. Knowing this, I doubt production will even spend the money on Rattlers, so I'll pick my battles. Doc, thanks for the fiber contact, I'll need that sooner or later.

Alec, Panavision NY said the F23 power cable is exactly the same one as the Genesis, only in a different position. It comes out the back corner at a 22.5 degree angle, instead of out the side like the Genesis. Since I operate on the left side, I am still going to get the L connector at the camera body to avoid any clearance issues. It seems we have conflicting reports on the power cable. I should have looked closer at NAB.

Also, it turns out that the F23 will only run fixed frame rates in when split (23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30. 50 & 59.97). If we need to do any off speed work, I'll have to go 1 piece. With that in mind, I've ordered 9 Power Cubes, which I'll use for either 1 or 2 pc. mode on Steadicam. I need to buy V mounts to replace the AB mounts on my sled. In 2 piece handheld, I was thinking of putting a single Power Cube on the back (on the dual link box) via an Anton Bauer to V mount adapter. In 1 piece handheld, I'll just have to have the dolly grip chase me with a block battery.

Another F23 note, in order to do over 30fps in 4:4:4, the SRW-1 needs to have the HKSR103 board installed. They are rare, and cost more $$. You can still go over 30fps without the card, but only in 4:2:2. Because of availability, we are only getting 1, so we'll have to keep track of the off speed body, and what camera platform it's due up on next.

Someone remind me to take a 35mm job on the next show :rolleyes:

Thanks for all the input,
Mark
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