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The-boxx.tv new HD low delay unit


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#1 Lars Erik

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:07 AM

Hi all,

I noticed that the-boxx.tv has a new HD wireless unit out. They're showing at booth C3115 at NAB. It has HDSDI / SDI / Component and Composite.

It would be great if someone who'd had a chance to check it out wrote a tiny note about it here on the forum.

I would love to go, but can't. So if anyone has a chance to look at it, and wants to say a few words, that would be very interesting. Always better to hear what fellow ops have to say, than the seller.

LE
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#2 Häakon

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 11:24 AM

Thought some of you may be interested in this information;

The Boxx company, who has been making wireless SD units for a couple of years now, is offering wireless HD in a very compact package starting at the end of '08 for under $9,000. The signal is completely uncompressed, supports HD up to 1080p, and is very low latency.

I don't know much else about the company, but I spent a good deal of time talking to the reps there with my own concerns/wants as a Steadicam operator, and they seemed quite receptive to my suggestions.

The website is www.boxx.tv, but for those attending NAB this year, you might want to drop by and see what they're doing (and leave some comments of your own!). A setup like the one they were demonstrating could be a very nice (and affordable) asset in an operator's toolbox (or is that toolboxx?).
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#3 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 11:33 AM

The Boxx company, who has been making wireless SD units for a couple of years now, is offering wireless HD in a very compact package starting at the end of '08 for under $9,000. The signal is completely uncompressed, supports HD up to 1080p, and is very low latency.


I was sent details on this last week. They've got the frame delay down to a frame, and it's wireless HD, stable microwave. Looks like a no-brainer to me.
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#4 Scott Walker

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:57 PM

Many thanks to Lars, Haakon and Jason for posting this information.

I am heading up the design of the new BoxxHD system.
Our current brochure can be downloaded from www.boxx.tv. Click the centre flash display.

Below is a list of features we are working on. Please contact me if you have any ideas on the features steadicam operators are looking for. I look forward to any input from members of this forum.


BOXX.HD - Release end 2008

Under 1 frame delay
SDI/HDSDI in-out
Composite in-out
HD down converted to composite
Embedded audio
Analogue Audio in-out
Headphone monitoring on receiver
60m range with handheld receiver
200m range with Hi Gain Receiver
Use Anton / V-Lok plates or no plates
USB port for manual configuration and firmware upgrade
6-36V DC power in
One transmitter can be viewed by many receivers

Price guide:
Transmitter - $5000USD
Hand held receiver - £3000USD
6 way diversity broadcast receiver - TBA.

We will have a working demo at Cinegear in June and look forward to meeting you all then.
Please contact me on scott@boxx.tv

Many thanks
Scott Walker
Boxx.tv
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#5 luis castro

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 09:48 PM

Many thanks to Lars, Haakon and Jason for posting this information.

I am heading up the design of the new BoxxHD system.
Our current brochure can be downloaded from www.boxx.tv. Click the centre flash display.

Below is a list of features we are working on. Please contact me if you have any ideas on the features steadicam operators are looking for. I look forward to any input from members of this forum.


BOXX.HD - Release end 2008

Under 1 frame delay
SDI/HDSDI in-out
Composite in-out
HD down converted to composite
Embedded audio
Analogue Audio in-out
Headphone monitoring on receiver
60m range with handheld receiver
200m range with Hi Gain Receiver
Use Anton / V-Lok plates or no plates
USB port for manual configuration and firmware upgrade
6-36V DC power in
One transmitter can be viewed by many receivers

Price guide:
Transmitter - $5000USD
Hand held receiver - £3000USD
6 way diversity broadcast receiver - TBA.

We will have a working demo at Cinegear in June and look forward to meeting you all then.
Please contact me on scott@boxx.tv

Many thanks
Scott Walker
Boxx.tv



is very good transmiter , price so much
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#6 Wolf Seeberg

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 05:44 PM

we have a 2007 version of the composite only box transmitter with 10 frame delay for rent or sale.
its hard to get directors to get used to the 10 frame picture delay. We used it on Greys anatomy for 3 seasons, than they went cheap and reverted to the Modulupp.

Digital Video Transmitter and Audio Delay


Transmitter (built in antenna) Receiver (internal antenna) 2006 model, 300 yard range

Advantage: a perfect picture all the time ? no flickers ever

LEARNING CURVE: PICTURE DELAY
The Tx-Rx delays the picture on the monitor by 10 frames. It could be an annoyance for the director if he/she hears the actors on set dialogue outside his headphones just before he hears them in the phones. The delayed audio is in sync with the pix. Headphones that isolate help a lot here. They also prevent the actors from hearing themselves as an echo on the set.

As soon as headphones are worn or the monitoring is in a separate space away from the set the delay is no issue. Yes it does remove the director ?from the process? but this may be an advantage too. The director is distant from ?live? but perceives the event in a perceptual space that is more like the final program or film.

News: 2006 model in metal box has 300 yards range outside and a total of 5 channels can be used simultaneously. Cost approx. $ 6000.00.

2 Channel advice:
To get maximum range out of two cameras with 2 transmitters and 2 receivers on one stage do this:

Keep receivers 12 feet apart.

This will keep the receivers from talking to each other and freezing of the picture. Along with the picture freeze you get yellow lights on the receivers.

There is a ?this side away from camera? side to the way you mount the transmitter. Giving it ?air? helps.

There is a ?this side to transmitter? on the receiver. This is not so important.

Only at the very end of range where the picture goes from freezing to not freezing it may help. Experience has shown that pointing the hot side of the receiver towards the ceiling works well at long range on stages. What you do at short range (under 40 feet) does not matter a whole lot.

Picture Quality
Picture is perfect and looks good till the end of range, where it freezes till the Tx is in range again. There are no flickers and no rolling ever!!

Outdoor range: 30 yards = 90 feet New 2006 model: 200 feet
Indoor on stage range: 45 yards = 135 feet New 2006 model: 300 feet

These digital electronics like multipath. The system performs better indoors with lots of metal around reflecting the signal every way possible. In a 3-hour period you might experience one frozen frame event for 3 frames. This is the worst it will get. Picture at receiver output will be delayed a constant 10 frames. You need a matching audio (headphone) delay.

380 m sec. Delay
The picture is 10 frames delayed from live at the Rx on the monitor. It takes that time to digitize transmit and receive and un-digitize and make perfect images. (A-D Tx D-A) The equivalent delay for headphones is 380 m sec. You need an $80.00 audio delay to feed headphones with sync audio. It could be an annoyance if one hears the actors talk outside one?s headphones before one hears them in the phones in sync with the pix.. Headphones that isolate help a lot here. They also prevent the actors from hearing themselves as a echo on the set. As soon as headphones are worn or the monitoring is in a separate space away from the set this is no issue.

LED ON RX
Off ? no power
Yellow ? Warming up (needs 3 sec to start)
Red ? no link to Tx, Tx is off or too far away
Green ? all okay. Green is also on or turns yellow if Tx loses power. May turn Yellow blink to Red - Tx is out of range and Rx freezes image.

LED on Tx
Off ? no power
Red ? no link, Rx is off or too far away
Red blinking ? Trouble, Rx too far away or off.
Green ? all okay

THEORY OF OPERATION
The receiver continuously scans for free frequencies and communicates these to the Tx. The transmitter changes to these frequencies for the least amount of interference. The system seems to have more range in a metal-lined stage (cage) than in open air.

Coverage
In a suburban environment with little metal to reflect from, with only wooden construction houses the range is 25 yards thru 2 sheetrock walls.
On a chicken wire encased stage with wood sets and hanging lights: 45 yards.
The signal will not go through concrete + steel (parking garage) walls.

Extra Receiver Not Possible
Only one Tx-Rx pair works at a time. There are no other receivers possible. You must retransmit with other analog or expensive digital equipment: 900 MHz or other frequencies.

Voltage and power use: 9-16 Volts for Tx and Rx
TX 9V .65A
12V .48A
16V .37A
RX 9V .60A
12V .40A
16V .30A

We have cigarette size battery packs that are good for 4 hours for Tx or Rx and weigh 8 oz.

12V Battery with no memory effect
Li-Ion: 2 Ahr, max discharge 4 A with internal auto resetting fuse. 14.8V fully charged. Low voltage safety cutoff at 12V built in. No memory effect, 5+ years lifetime. Charge time 1.5 hr.


Tx Connector
Rear view of Lemo 8 way PLUG
All the grounds were connected in the early units (till the last 6 or so I think) in the connector.
Lemo part number is FHG.1B.308.CLAD52 for the right angle with boot.

1 Ground for Power + Video + Audio
2 +12volts
3 Video Signal
4
5
6
7 Audio Ch1
8 Audio Ch2

Audio Level
Tx: Headphone feed from Beta works OK, probably an unbalanced ?10db level. There are 2 external level pots on the TX, screwdriver adjust, white ones on a small side. Since the picture is delayed 8-10 frames at the output of the receiver the audio when fed from Tx is delayed also and the headphones are in sync with picture. Rx audio out is balanced ?0? VU ref .775V (internally adjustable). The small black Rx has External audio adjustments, it is only a packaging difference.



Audio Delay

SHARK DSP110 a digital delay also called a delay line, the audio delay is set matching the picture delay so that the 2 are in sync on the monitor.

380 m sec is the best value to set the delay at.

How to save settings
It?s important to leave the DSP110 powered on for several minutes after creating new settings for any function so that they will be saved. When you power it up again the new settings will be remembered and re-appear.

To lock the front panel:
Push and hold the LOW CUT button (till all 5 LEDs above display are on) ? the LOW CUT YELLOW LED will blink. Do the reverse to unlock the unit to be reset.

How to increase the speed of UP-DOWN control
This works for any parameter where there is a big numeric difference between minimum and maximum.
Press and hold the UP or DOWN arrow keys, to initiate resetting of numbers .
While holding the UP or DOWN button, press the opposite direction button a couple of times. Each press makes the numbers increase or decrease at a faster rate. Cool -

TO ADJUST LOW CUT
Press low cut button briefly ? LED lights up. Hold the DOWN button till you see OFF in display. To count faster hold DOWN and press UP briefly several times. Range of cut off is 150Hz to Off. For speech use I suggest somewhere between 80 and 120 Hz for a roll off. There is no info on the slope of the filter.

TO TURN OFF GATE
Press GATE button briefly ? LED lights up.
Do not press and hold Gate button ? if led flashes, gate is in learning mode ? that?s would activate it.
You do not want it ON at all!
Press DOWN until you see OFF in display.
To count faster hold DOWN and press UP briefly.

TO MAKE THE GATE WORK
Using the Noise Gate Learn Function
With no program material going through the system ( the input turned down at the previous stage), press and hold GATE button until all parameter lights at the top are lit.
The DSP110 will automatically adjust the gate threshold to suppress any unwanted noise.
monitor what you just did so you know what it sounds like!

TO TURN OFF COMPRESSOR
Press COMPRESSOR once.
You see numbers from 0-100.
For density press and hold DOWN till you see 0.
To count faster, hold DOWN and press UP briefly often.
Press COMPRESSOR a second time ? the m sec light above display comes on. This is the attack time adjustment. It should not matter.

Mechanical Controls
Mic input gain pot in the rear with switchable +48 V phantom power for mic.
Digital headroom adjust pot on front left with 5 vertical LED display ? automatically keeps output level the same, it only controls digital headroom for maximum S/N. Do not let the red LED come on ever!

Shark Turnoffs:
It may be RF sensitive so keep it away from Comteks, transmitters, etc. The remote power supply has a transformer in it that radiates a magnetic field. It gets pretty warm, ventilate.

It has good sounding 24-bit A/D and D/A converters and XLRs and phono jacks.
It has an awkward-to-adjust compressor and a noise gate with LEARN Mode useful as a total quieting tool only.
List $ 99.99, Street: $ 80.00 what a deal! By Behringer engineered in Germany, made in China, poorly written manual, external power supply on 6 ft. cable. Terrific tech help at Behringer USA 1-425-627-0816 X 141 ask for JH; he has some FAQs to email to you ( the useful info is included in this manual). For sales info http://www.behringer...ex.cfm?lang=ENG can be purchased

from many places such as : http://www.bswusa.co...rchValue=DSP110

DATA SECURITY
The encoding is of the 3DES encryption type and the Tx breaks the image file into many parts that are transmitted out of sequence on constantly changing frequencies (frequency hopping is guided by the Rx). This makes reception impossible for any normal mortal even with a large budget. If the CIA parks a helicopter on the roof, drills a hole onto the stage and lowers a receive antennae and retransmits the data to an NSA headquarters via satellite, one would guess that there is a small chance they can decipher the image a few days later.

LEGAL TO USE
This Transmitter ? Receiver pair is a legal to use anywhere by anybody under any circumstances, no license required in the USA or Europe. FCC Part 15 A.


wolf 310 822-4973
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#7 RonBaldwin

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:09 PM

Wolf, I used your system on Grey's for season 2. You are right, it is a rock solid picture and rarely had interference (when it did it froze up for a few seconds then instantly caught up).

About the delay -- I though the sound mixer had to delay his comteks by 15 frames to match up? It got to be a pain getting the comteks mixed up (some had to be real time for the ops/spfx and some had to be delayed for those at the monitor). I do believe this system to be much better quality than a modulus, but "cheaping out" was not the reason -- it was convenience of anyone having a monitor being able to see the tap vrs only video villiage as well as the issues associated with the frame delay.

In many applications maybe not a big deal, but on a series with 18 directors a season and too many people dependant on seeing/hearing real time pic/dialogue for instant cueing it might be too much to deal with.

Ron B
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#8 Charles Papert

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:58 PM

Lots of information there Wolf--but we are talking about the new version now with less than a frame of delay, yes?

Scott, having seen the new Camwave unit at NAB, I'd be interested to hear what will be different/better etc. on yours (which is priced quite a bit higher). Dimensions, weight, power draw would be useful too.
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#9 Scott Walker

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

Just thought I should give everyone an update on the new BOXX system.

The system will be released at the end of the year.

Features

? compatible with all SD and HD video formats up to 1080p, 30 frames. (it works at 24p and 23.98p)
? extremely high quality uncompressed video
? zero frame latency (< 1 millisecond)
? simultaneous HD down converter/scaler (Use either an HD or SD monitor when shooting HD)
? record and playback from a composite output even when shooting HD
? 5GHz license exempt band
? transmit to unlimited receivers
? receiver can switch between different cameras feeds
? automatic channel select (seeks and locks onto cleanest frequency)
? Auto or full manual configuration via USB port
? 6 way diversity receiver for Broadcast use
? Low cost handheld receiver for Video Assist
? headphone monitor on hand held receiver units
? tally light relay and genlock on Broadcast receiver

You can be downloaded the flyer from the home page at www.boxx.tv
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#10 JobScholtze

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 04:27 AM

Sounds great, but......

With expensive systems like this, you wont get a higher rate as the rate we have now. If production really wants this and request a solid hd signal like this, i let them rent one. Its silly to put this in your kit yourself, as you wont earn it back. My feelings are that the canatrans is the highest i would like to go. Production like to think you have a videoassist in your kit. Dasnt have to be the best and most expensive there is?
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#11 Brad Smith

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:51 AM

Sounds great, what will it be worth?
:huh:
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#12 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:32 AM

This is the system I have been waiting for...it does everything that we need it to do, with indistinguishable lateny, in HD. I will be a definite customer, Scott...

I think you make a good point though, Job. I would like to think that I'd market it as being a separate piece of kit, and charge hire rate for it as a part of the deal. I know for a fact once it's explained to production companies and clients what it can do, it will be something that they will want on every job.

I have spent the last few days doing the typical 'plug in for rehearsals / go wireless for the take' Varicam shoot, and it's a real pain in the backside...but yet currently it's the ONLY way to deal with a HD shoot.

I started doing a similar thing with my Teletest 7" wireless LCD monitor in its carry case - everyone I work with loves it, it is a good item to have in the kit, and it is something which productions are willing to pay more for.

Scott, please let us know when you have the system available...
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#13 Charles Papert

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:53 AM

Sounds great, but......

With expensive systems like this, you wont get a higher rate as the rate we have now. If production really wants this and request a solid hd signal like this, i let them rent one. Its silly to put this in your kit yourself, as you wont earn it back. My feelings are that the canatrans is the highest i would like to go. Production like to think you have a videoassist in your kit. Dasnt have to be the best and most expensive there is?


On the contrary, I feel that having this unit would absolutely be something that I can get extra for in the episodic and feature world. For years directors, producers, DP etc. have had to put up with RF interference when watching the image from the tap, and on HD jobs there is a certain limitation that can occur when working with a cable. I intend to pitch this as a separate rental item in the initial negotiation, i.e. the Modulus comes as part of the package but if they want the perfect transmission they can have this transmitter for extra. Many UPM's won't go for it but then the trick will be to pull it out once the job has begun and give the folks at video village a taste of what they could be getting. Once a director or producer sees the difference, they have the clout to tell the UPM to okay the deal. On an HD job, the advantage of going wireless is huge and I am even more convinced I can get the additional rental on this. The very fact that it is not a standard Steadicam item that would be assumed to be in everyone's kit is why it makes a good rental.

I have been successfully getting a separate rental on the Preston that normally comes with my kit by allowing it to be removed from the Steadicam and used for the conventional camera. Job, I would assume you get a separate rental fee for your AR...?
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#14 Jon Beattie

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:24 PM

Figured I'd copy the post i had in the idx thread. the 2 seem to have some cross posts

HD/SD dual format system

Transmitters
V-Lok / Anton Bauer Battery Mount $5,000USD / £2,500GBP
DV / Steadicam / Red Camera $5,000USD / £2,500GBP

Receivers
Hand Held Elite $5,000USD / £2,500GBP
High Gain OB with Genlock $20,000USD / £10,000GBP

Thats what Kyle from Boxx emailed me today.

So for around what a transvideo with all the bells or a tiffen hd monitor cost. You can get the transmitter with build in down converter. Transmit any format from SD pal/ntsc to hd up to 1080p with no delay. While at the same time passing through or downconverted image to the monitor.

I agree that yo can probably get an extra rate on it. Or can always just get the cables made and have production rent one like an aja.

I have some pdf spec and pricing info for anyone who wants it. Hit me up and I'll foward it.
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#15 Charles Papert

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:41 PM

There's also the Handheld Lite receiver that doesn't have SD compatability, just HD-SDI, at $2500. It's upgradeable to the Elite as required (after the sale)

I am talking to the Boxx folks about some other options such as downconverter at the transmitter side, which would relieve the need for an additional external downconverter (one box replacing two). Other things as well. The system is nicely modular which means that there will hopefully be a number of a la carte options.
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