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Dynamic Balance


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#1 Peter Hoare

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:51 PM

Hi,

I have had my Flyer for about two months and I have had a fair bit of practice, both gliding around my house and working for free on the set of music videos, short films and a low budget feature film.

Up until about 20mins ago I hadn't really given much though to dynamic balance. I knew what it was and how to adjust it, but it never really occurred to me to play with it on my rig. Ive got quite a heavy load on it at the moment, right on the recommended limit. I span it round to check the dynamic balance and it was all over the place. To compensate for this I dropped the batteries down and moved the camera back. I span it again and by some freak of nature, it was totally straight. No waving or drunken spinning.

I havn't had the chance (and wont for afew days) to have a proper go with the rig in this new configuration but my question is, will it make a noticeable difference? Will it be easier to keep a level horizon and make a significant impact on my operation?

I have had nothing but good comments from anyone that I have worked for and my rushes look pretty good, so if this makes me better than I will be very pleased :-)

Thanks for any advice,

Pete.
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#2 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 07:03 PM

It does matter and it will make perticular difference when you pan. That being said, I don't spend much time with dynamic balance as a general rule. Probably because my rig is marked so that an average camera with an average lense is pretty close to dynamically balanced. On a one day job like a commercial or music video I almost never dynamically balance my rig.

I'm sure several operators will have other thoughts on this.

mm.
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#3 Peter Hoare

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 07:41 PM

I used to have the batteries set up flat so I could use the top to hold an extra weight. When i tried spinning this round it was all over the place, so I suppose I was very off dynamic balance. I will see how the rig handles in the morning.

Thanks,

Pete.
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#4 RobinThwaites

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 08:07 PM

Hi Pete

Just curious, why did you want the extra weight - especially at that position?

Robin
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#5 Peter Hoare

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 08:20 PM

Hi Robin,

I still had afew kilos left before the limit and I wanted to be able to move the gimbal down the post a little bit for more hand room. Adding extra weight allowed me to slide the gimbal abit further down the post.

I may be in the market for a bigger rig fairly soon... Archer maybe. Whats stock like?!?
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#6 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 01:56 AM

??? How does moving the gimbal down give you more hand room, I'm confused.
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#7 Louis Puli SOC

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 02:23 AM

Hi Peter
Why don't you ask Robin about doing a flyer workshop
I know you will be better off for it .
all the best
Louis Puli B)
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#8 Peter Hoare

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:48 AM

Hi,

Im not sure about the more room, it just feels more comfortable when the camera is higher up.

Im already booked onto the next workshop, very much looking forward to it ;-)
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#9 JobScholtze

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 01:07 PM

If i do just a walk and talk, i dont care much about DB. But i also do a lot of live concerts and television shows. There the DB is very important to me. Lots of panning around the artist, etc etc. So it depends on the job i guess.

But i am so used to it now, that most of the time i put the rig in db anyway.

J
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#10 Matteo Quagliano

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:19 AM

Hi,

It might soud stupid :blink: but with this set up (battery down camera back) do you still have your drop time around 2/3 sec?
What I experienced is that with 1 sec or less drop time you have almost in any rig a perfect DB... but I'm probably wrong... let me know I'm very curious

matteo
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#11 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:18 PM

i think 1 second is a wee bit fast.
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#12 Peter Hoare

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 06:59 PM

I recently defied all laws of gravity and managed to get a RedOne digital cinema camera with battery and remote follow focus to fly on my Steadicam Flyer.


Everyone said it couldnt be done, and I was skeptical myself but after taking an alan key to the camera and stripping all the handles and stuff off I got it to work fine.

The drop time on that rig was slow, as the camera was so big, about 4 seconds. It worked surprisingly well, I might use a longer drop time in the future.


Posted Image
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#13 Charles Papert

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 11:13 PM

The drop time on that rig was slow, as the camera was so big, about 4 seconds.


I'm not sure if I am reading you right but I assume you mean because you didn't have a way to raise the gimbal or add any more weight to the bottom of the sled.

Powering the camera off the rig would be an excellent way to avoid maxing out, and allow you to use such niceties as a focus control, mattebox etc. Must be a little challenging finding things to shoot in an interior with 35mm optics and no remote focus...
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#14 Matteo Quagliano

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:45 AM

Can I sound more stupid??? :blink:

Do you have a good DB with the set up we see on the pic?

Yes Mike, 1 sec is just for seeing it rotating perfectly, just to make myself happy about that, then I go for a more natural/neutral drop time around 3/4 sec and thing changes. :lol:

Anyway I experienced that heavy camera gives better result and control, even for DB they keep it much more precisely then little minidv hdv P2 or whatever light cam you mount on the rig... but probably it's my rig...
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#15 Peter Hoare

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:21 AM

Hi,

I tried lots of times to try and power the camera from the sled. I phoned Red and the hire companies and the owner of that camera, but it sounds pretty much impossible.

The power input on the back of the RedOne is an 8pin lemo connector, and it deliveres more than just power from the battery, it takes information about the status to and from the camera, so the camera can tell you when the battery is running out etc etc etc. If you plug a non redbrick battery in, it still half works but if you try and power it off the sled which only carries power Ruby throws a complete wobbly and wont turn on.

Hanging the brick off the back in that way was the only way to power the camera. Jeff did suggest mounting the brick on my vest but the cable wasn't long enough.

I'm not sure if I am reading you right but I assume you mean because you didn't have a way to raise the gimbal or add any more weight to the bottom of the sled.

Powering the camera off the rig would be an excellent way to avoid maxing out, and allow you to use such niceties as a focus control, mattebox etc. Must be a little challenging finding things to shoot in an interior with 35mm optics and no remote focus...


Yeah thats more or less the reason it was so neutrally balanced. We had a remote follow focus on the camera so focus wasn't a problem.


As far as the DB is concerned, im not entirely sure. Because of the big battery hanging off the back, i suspect not. the battery also prevented me from spinning the sled around in my usual way so I dont know. I was only running round some pepole dancing in a big circle anyway.

I think you are right about a heavy camera gibing more control. I practice with a Z1 and I weight it with gym weights to mimic the effects of having a much larger camera on the sled. I think its good to be prepared for the heavier cameras...?
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