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Steadicam Aesthetics


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#1 chris fawcett

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:48 AM

Dear Colleagues and Friends,

Does anyone think that a forum for Steadicam aesthetics is a good idea?

At present, we have plenty of tech forums, and none really dedicated to the art of operating. The closest we have is "Operating Techniques and Situations," which covers something else.

I'm imagining a place we could go to talk about how a shot worked in a film, and why; rather than how demanding it was, technically or physically, etc.

All the best,

Chris
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#2 Bryan Fowler

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 11:33 AM

Chris,

I think it's a good idea. Learning the technical part of operating is great, but the more subjective aspects of film making (choosing shots, making the mood match the action, stuff like that) are great to learn.

I've found that listening to others talk about their decision making process always helped me. It also helps when I explain why I did something, or what got in the way.

So yeah! you got my vote. =)
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#3 Dan Coplan

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:54 PM

Isn't that what "General Discussion" or "Journals" is for?

Dan
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#4 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 08:50 PM

Isn't that what "General Discussion" or "Journals" is for?

Dan



I agree with Dan on this one.
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#5 Bryan Fowler

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:18 PM

Isn't that what "General Discussion" or "Journals" is for?

Dan


Oh..

but... the word aesthetics is so much cooler!
=)
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#6 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:56 AM

Isn't that what "General Discussion" or "Journals" is for?


"General Discussion" is for the things that "doesn't apply to the other discussion forums." as stated in that section subtitle, there is a "General Discussion" section on every Internet forums and most of the time it's were all the lazy persons post because they don't want to think for a second were their question Topic should be created. As a moderator here Eric you should know it better.

and "Journals" is for posting your thoughts and stories about our everyday life on sets.

So yes, an "Aesthetics" section should be part of SteadicamForum, as we are Camera operators and not just a different breed of grips.

The first problem we have here now is simple, it's just like if we wanted to talk about music but most people coming on this forum don't know what a violin is.

But that's a common thing on Internet forums, newbies go to forums to get answers to their questions and they post new ones (most of the time without doing a search to see if that question wasn't already asked a thousand times)

The second problem we have is that some seasoned operators come here not to ask or answer questions but to desperately have some fun, you know, internet is the place to have fun, so to make it happen they use some of their local jokes here forgetting that it's an international forum and that even if knowing what is the recurrent trendy joke of west Hollywood when you live in Europe can be interesting, after one year of that same joke coming again and again and killing the possibility of all serious discussions, it can become slightly irritating to say the least.

K.
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#7 RonBaldwin

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 05:18 PM

the recurrent trendy joke of west Hollywood...can become slightly irritating to say the least.
K.


Lisagav is no joke...and if you are irritated, it may help (use liberally).

rb
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#8 Rob Vuona SOC

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 06:29 PM

the recurrent trendy joke of west Hollywood...can become slightly irritating to say the least.
K.


Lisagav is no joke...and if you are irritated, it may help (use liberally).

rb

LOL . . . .once again . . .honestly, laughing out loud . . .

I just like the fact that Kareem knows what the West Hollywood joke meant
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#9 Charles Papert

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:30 PM

Personally, I think this whole discussion is heading down a slippery slope.
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#10 RonBaldwin

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 09:58 PM

ok fine -- let's move this discussion back to where it belongs, a bar or Chas' house.
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#11 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 10:05 PM

ok fine -- let's move this discussion back to where it belongs, a bar or Chas' house.



Where, when? I'm there
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#12 Kris Torch Wilson

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:14 AM

Who needs writers.! We are friggin hilarious. Or not. This is what happens when dozens of semi gifted "artists" are left to entertain ourselves. Please settle WGA fools, it can only get worse.
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#13 nealnorton

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:52 AM

Easy there Kareem, I have worked with some pretty good filmakers that also happen to be grips! You can call me another breed of grip and I will not take offense!

Grips are cool!

Neal Norton
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#14 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:29 PM

I have no problems with grips and I never said that being a grip is a shame, the thing is that I don't think that Steadicam Operators are a part of the grip crew but are part of the camera crew and it should stay like that as it has always been, but I have been told that I was wrong many times lately and it sounds like some grips with the help of rental companies want to take over the Steadicam business, at least here in France.

The goal is demeaning our job to continue the fall of our rates, it's now very usual here to be "offered" less than what a Focus Puller is paid.

But back on Chris's proposition, what about not talking only about monitors but also about what we are framing with them ?, and to help that a Steadicam Aesthetics section could help.

K.
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#15 nealnorton

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:03 PM

Hmmmm. . .Steadicam moved to the grip department. Now there is an interesting concept. Dolly grip/steadicam operator - it seems to me that the rates would move higher, not lower! I do see how the low ball competition can be very frustrating.

My concern with "steadicam aesthetics" is that the idea is so limited. It is kind of like "hammer aesthetics" when talking about building fine furniture or maybe "violin aesthetics" when talking about music.

Also, our work is so collaborative and the results are often so ambiguous in regard to intent versus perception that assigning any real authorship to the finished product is very hard to do.

Technique on the other hand is much easier to get a handle on. . . For example, Larry McConkey was brilliant operating the steadicam on "Bonfire of the Vanities" but trying to assign credit to the steadicam for the resulting scene is kind of like crediting the paint brush for a painting.

So, I think "operating technique" is a broad enough topic to discuss our part of the process.

Neal
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