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Hytron 140 taming 435's (film cameras)


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#1 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 10:58 AM

Has anyone out there manage to use the new technology of Anton Bauer's Hytron140 or Hytron100, to tame the power surge of any film cameras, like 435's, 535's 16SR III, etc? Hope that you can share your experiences.

Warmest regards
cheong
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#2 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:06 AM

Cheong,

(Not sure if your display name is your real name: I suspect you are saying "DP" and then your name. If I'm wrong, sorry. If right, please change it to your full real name. Thanks).

The Hytron 140 is as every bit as rugged as a ProPac 14. I have used them for all film cameras at all speeds, BUT I was also using a small nicad (Profomer) to jump the system to 24 Volts. I'd be curious to see how they work in conjunction with a Dionic 90. Experiment at a rental house if you can. I recently made the switch from a two battery base to a three battery base so I could take advantage of the Dionics by gaining a ton of watt hours and shedding a bunch of weight.

Best,

Alec
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#3 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:38 PM

Hi! Alec,

So sorry about the name thingy, Cheong is actually my surname and back home, people usually call me Cheong coz my given name is harder to pronounce. I have just changed to my full name.

Thanks for sharing the information. Could two Hytron140 be used to jump to 24V and yet be able to handle the initial spike on the start-up of the film cameras? If one is flying mostly film cameras, what is a good choice of battery models to start with? Thanking you again.

Cheerio
cheong
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#4 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:47 PM

"Could two Hytron140 be used to jump to 24V and yet be able to handle the initial spike on the start-up of the film cameras? If one is flying mostly film cameras, what is a good choice of battery models to start with? "

Cheong,

I'd guess two Hytron 140s would work, but keep in mind that you are now carrying 11+ pounds in ballast which is way more than needed for most film cameras (any of the ones we want to fly anyway). Obviously, the kind of rig and monitor you are flying factors into this too. If you plan on using two batteries, I'd use a Hytron 140 and a Performer (which are no longer made) or a Trimpac. Like I said, you may also want to try a Hytron 140 and a Dionic 90, but I have never done this (remember, this is for 24 Volts only; do not put them in parallel). If you are using a three battery system, try three Dionic 90s for most situations but it would be wise to keep a few Performers/Trimpacs for high speed work with a 435.

Cheers,

Alec
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#5 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 01:23 PM

Hi! Alec,

I am looking into a three battery system. Could two Dionic 90's handle the Spike on camera start? Are they allowed as hand-carried baggage on board air plane travel?
What are the differences between Digital Trimpac 14 Logic Series and Trimpac 14 Logic Series.
I'll definitely keep a few of these.


Have a great day
Cheong
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#6 MarkKaravite

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:46 AM

Hey Cheong,

You are thinking correctly when you consider the 435 when you select batteries. If you plan your battery package for a 435, it will run any other film camera. I would not rely on 2 Dionics to run a 435. Digital cameras have different power requirements, and these days, you have to plan for these power hungry cameras.

I also fly a 3 battery system like Alec's. I own 6 Dionic 90's, and 6 Proformers. Since my Dionics are new, I can run a 435 easily to 48 fps on 3 Dionics. If I need to go above that, I add a Profomer. I fully expect that once my Dionics get some age on them, I will have to add a NiCad sooner, and maybe more of them. Having 3 Dionics on the sled is a great battery setup for digital cameras. Since Dionic 90's are common at rental houses, I always try to use the rental houses batteries on digital shoots.

I think that you will find that Hytron 140's are not the ideal battery for either a 435 or digital cameras. NiCad is really required for 435, and LiIon is best for digital cameras. I know this from experience, because I had a combination of Hytron 120's and Proformers before. When I switched to Dionics / 3 battery setup, I not only dropped substantial weight, but I more than doubled the run time on a set of batteries. On a film shoot at 24 fps, I can usually go until lunch without changing batteries. With my old setup, I would have switched out 3 times by then.

If you are starting from scratch, then you should look at the Tiffen Powercubes. They are a high draw LiIon battery that works well for both 435 and digital cameras. They only come in V mount, so that prohibits using most rental house batteries unless you use adapters, and they tend to cause vibration. One reason I didn't get the Powercubes is that I didn't want to switch out both my battery mounts and my chargers.

If you run a search on this forum, Greg Bubb has done substantial testing that compares different battery chemistries. This info was very helpful when I selected batteries.

Feel free to contact me directly if you have more questions.

Best regards,
Mark
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#7 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 12:38 PM

Hi! Mark,

First and foremost, I want to thank you for taking time in sharing your set-up experiences. I honestly appreciate it very much.

Let me see if I am getting the information right:-

3 batteries System = 2 x Dionic 90's (supplying 24V powering 435 up to 48fps) + 1 x Dionic 90 (supplying 12V powering all other accessories)

If the 435 camera needs to run higher frame rates
1 x Dionic 90 with 1 x Proformer (supplying 24V powering 435 up to 150fps) + 1 x Dionic 90 (supplying 12V powering all other accessories)

And for Digital cameras
2 x Dionic 90's (supplying 24V powering Digital camera) + 1 x Dionic 90 (supplying 12V powering all other accessories)

Is the above how your set-up combination is done? I am just trying to get a clearer picture.


In the real world, would it be silly to have have a combination of say 3 x Dionic 90's, 3 x Trimpac and 3 x Hytron 100's or Hytron 140's as an initial start-up investment? The reason why I am not opting for too many Dionic 90's is the air travel restrictions they have on Li-Ion batteries (can't check in). Are they allowed in the plane as carry-on luggage? Where as the Trimpac and the Hytrons can be checked in, right? I am only thinking out loud on this combination. Alec did suggest this combination too but didn't mention the number of batteries though. What do you think?

Thanks again for your time and patience.

Cheers
cheong
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#8 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 12:45 PM

I'll throw in my 2 cents and add a question.............

I use a 3 battery system and I use 3 Hytron 50's. I mostly work with film cameras, particularly the 435. I've never had a problem running at 120fps with 3 Hytron 50's. So for my money, Hytron 50's are the best bet.

Now the question part. This set of Hytorn 50's is about 1 year old. I have 9 of them and 2 chargers and have never come close to running out of battery power on a film camera (and that's running every possible widget you can stick on a steadicam, (range finder, canotrans, archos, preston, et.). Does that only work because the batteries are relatively new? More over, why would you bother with a bigger battery unless you were trying to add weight to the bottom of the sled?

mm.
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#9 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:27 PM

Hello Mike,

Thanks for joining in. Wow, this is the first time that I am reading that the Hytron 50's can power the 435 up to 120fps. What chargers are you using?

Warmest regards
cheong
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#10 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:17 PM

If you are starting from scratch, then you should look at the Tiffen Powercubes. They are a high draw LiIon battery that works well for both 435 and digital cameras.


This is true, no problem with 120fps on 435. With a minor format change, 2 Power Cubes are good to go with the power hungry Genesis too. http://www.steadicam...2_Batteries.pdf

-Alfeo
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#11 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 03:35 PM

Cheong,

Glad to see others chiming in. Hytron 50s will age quickly and cease to run a 435 at high speeds (about a year - maybe two) much like the Dionics. The travel limitations is the only reason (in my opinion) to consider the Hytron 50s over Dionics because in every other way the Dionic is better. Anton Bauer actually rates the maximum load for the Dionic 90 as higher than the Hytron 50

http://antonbauer.co...g_batteries.htm

As far as travel????? That is a bit of a bugger. I always try and have production ship my gear (my cart is too heavy for the airlines, etc) but that is not always an option. As of now, you can carry all the Dionic 90s you want in your carry on, but as someone else stated in another thread one TSA agent made him check his batteries because HE was confused about the new regulations. I have a portabrace bag for my batteries that would be perfect for carry on, but if I was suddenly forced to check them (which is NOT what we are supposed to do) then I'd want my hard case. I'm currently carrying 9 Dionic 90s and five Promformers (this bag is not too heavy and is indeed 15+ pounds lighter than it was when I used a combination of large and small bricks). I just switched to this set up recently, but my intent is to use the Dionics for everything except 435 high speed work. Then I will power the camera from one Dionic 90 and one Performer with another Dionic 90 powering my monitor.

Best,

Alec
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#12 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 05:42 PM

So for high draw cameras most of you seem to be putting a nicad and a lithium-ion(or nimh) battery in series? Is this correct? I would have thought putting different battery chemistries in series would be a bad idea.....

~Jess
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#13 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 07:23 PM

"I would have thought putting different battery chemistries in series would be a bad idea....."

Series = OK

Parallel NOT OK!!!!!!
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#14 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 06:51 AM

Hi! Alfeo,

Thanks for the link. Will find out more on the Power Cubes.

Cheerio
cheong
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#15 Yuk Hoy Cheong

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 07:58 AM

Hello Alec,

Yeah, Thank you all for chipping in and sharing. I sincerely appreciate it very much.

I guess Dionic 90's and Trimpac (since Proformer is no longer in Production) would be my way to go then. I'll also try and look into Power Cubes as suggested by Mike and Mark.

I am going to try but just in case I fail again, how do we run a search on this forum on Greg Bubb's test that compares different battery chemistries. I am still new at this.

Thanks again guys

Have fun
cheong
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