Jump to content



Photo

35mm Sync Sound Camera Options


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Jess Haas SOC

Jess Haas SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1145 posts
  • Culver City, CA

Posted 06 October 2007 - 02:59 AM

I hear a lot of talk about operating with 435s and 235s, but these cameras just wont cut it for interior walk and talks will they? When you need something quiet and the production doesn't have a huge amount of money what do you use?

I am currently looking at the 535B but I hear it is a beast. Is there anything that can be had in the same price range or cheaper that is reasonably quiet but won't kill a relatively new steadicam op? Of course it seems that everyone (but me) would be happier if I said they could shoot on that BL4S that they seem to love so much because they can get it for cheap.

~Jess
  • 0

#2 Rob Vuona SOC

Rob Vuona SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1143 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 06 October 2007 - 03:11 AM

I hear a lot of talk about operating with 435s and 235s, but these cameras just wont cut it for interior walk and talks will they? When you need something quiet and the production doesn't have a huge amount of money what do you use?

I am currently looking at the 535B but I hear it is a beast. Is there anything that can be had in the same price range or cheaper that is reasonably quiet but won't kill a relatively new steadicam op? Of course it seems that everyone (but me) would be happier if I said they could shoot on that BL4S that they seem to love so much because they can get it for cheap.

~Jess

-------------
Ya Jess, Have fun shooting with the BL4, then have fun hanging out with your chiropracter . . .that camera sucks to shoot with . . . .Go with an HD video Camera quite and affordable . . . .whats the quote? Tape is cheap, fix it in post . . . .The editors love that one . . .LOL . . .

Best of luck
  • 0

#3 RobVanGelder

RobVanGelder

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 919 posts
  • Bangkok, Thailand

Posted 06 October 2007 - 09:42 AM

If it has to be sync sound and on film, try to source an AATON 35. They are quiet enough when shooting outside in a normal environment.
Now the assistants will have something to grumble again, it can be difficult to load if you are not familiar, but other than that it is a dream to fly!
Or the Moviecam SL or the Arricam Lite ( hmmm.... budget problems huh???) ;)

and as the other Rob said: the BL4s is fun.......... NOT!, don't even consider it unless you want serious health problems and metal fatique in your rig/arm/titanium hip socket! :D
  • 0

#4 Lawrence Karman

Lawrence Karman

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 896 posts

Posted 06 October 2007 - 12:25 PM

Try and get a Moviecam Compact. It can't cost more than a 535 and flys nicely. The Aaton is a good idea, but it can be a little noisey. Good luck.
  • 0

#5 Mike McGowan SOC

Mike McGowan SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 624 posts
  • Miami, Florida, USA

Posted 06 October 2007 - 02:49 PM

I'll rank them in my prefered order:

Arri Cam Lt.
MovieCam Sl.
Panavision Millennium Xl or Xl2
Panaflex Lightweight
Moviecam Compact (though the video tap usually sucks).
Arri Cam studio
Anything but the 535
the 535
  • 0

#6 Erwin Landau

Erwin Landau

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 1699 posts
  • TBD

Posted 06 October 2007 - 03:29 PM

The 535B has been my bread and butter for the last 2 years. The company claims that the Moviecam Compact would come back with to many Film scratches... Shooting Fuji Film mainly which has a slightly thicker Emulsion.
Even though I fly the 535B it is an understanding that not all moves are possible with that camera and I have last refusal on the move. No running what so ever... For days like that I get a 435 or a 235, quick moves, no sound. No discussion.

I refuse to fly either BL's or Gold's... not to talk about the 535A.

Every single time I used the Aaton 35 we had issues. And it's actually hard to find these days. Also not a big fan of the Moviecam SL, sometimes just too light especially with super speed lenses. Carbon body... it's noisy indoors and can give you light leaks because of the warping body.

The Moviecam Compact MK2 is a great camera as it's very much a rehoused Arricam ST (Movement, motor, Viewing system etc.) The Arricam ST is virtually the same camera. I also would put the Panavision Millennium into that bunch as well.

Favored Sync Sound cameras would be the Arricam LT. Initially to light after adding 2 FF motors, Cinetape, Transmitter, filters... it's the perfect weight. Panavisions LW2 and the Millennium XL are only tainted by the fact that you have to deal with Panavision.

My believe is, if they are already not paying you your rate... the least they can do is make your life easier and get a decent Camera to work with... (Because if they are looking at the BL to begin with you will do a lot on that production) or you can wait until the guy that does fly that rust bucket of a camera hurts himself... (sorry couldn't resist...)


Just my 2 cents,


Erwin
  • 0

#7 Dan Coplan

Dan Coplan

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 507 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 06 October 2007 - 10:56 PM

> "and as the other Rob said: the BL4s is fun.......... NOT!"

> "Even though I fly the 535B it is an understanding...I have last refusal on the move. No running what so ever..."

Or you can pull up your boot straps and realize that we've all been there and it's like a rite of passage. Last time I flew a BL4 I was directed to "just chase the girl through the woods until you run out of room". She was pretty quick. And there was a whoooooole lotta room in them there woods. Did a full day with a 535B running through the woods forwards, backwards, tracking, roundy-round...

No, it's not fun. Yes, it can be painful. But you'll be a better man for it. *

Dan "Clearly a Sucker" Coplan

* Ok, maybe not. But makes me feel better for saying so.
  • 0

#8 Jess Haas SOC

Jess Haas SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1145 posts
  • Culver City, CA

Posted 07 October 2007 - 03:24 AM

Thanks for all of the great replies. I unfortunately don't know of any Arricam or Moviecams in my neck of the woods. Arri seems to be king around here for 35. Panavision in Dallas is only 3 hours away but for anything more than a day or two might be better off shipping a moviecam or something in from somewhere else.

The film that got me thinking about this is at least a year off and I may not end up being the steadicam op, but this information will definitely help me give them some advice on what needs to be budgeted for.

Don't worry Dan, I am certain that I will get my chance to fly a BL4 before long. I will be sure to let you know how much height I lose in the process.

~Jess
  • 0

#9 RobVanGelder

RobVanGelder

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 919 posts
  • Bangkok, Thailand

Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:36 AM

..........
The Moviecam Compact MK2 is a great camera as it's very much a rehoused Arricam ST (Movement, motor, Viewing system etc.) The Arricam ST is virtually the same camera. I also would put the Panavision Millennium into that bunch as well.
........

Erwin



Ehh, isn't that the other way around? The Moviecam compact existed long before the Arricam ST/LT, in fact, the reason for Arri to buy Moviecam was exactly that they needed their technology/movement, they could not make anything lighter than that and were stuck with the BL type movement.

Anyway, Erwin, I know how you are build and yes, this camera and the 535B are do-able for you, but with my height and weight not so....
Can handle it though and am forced to too, in Thailand we do not have all the options available but it is not fun!
  • 0

#10 RonBaldwin

RonBaldwin

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2351 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 October 2007 - 03:54 PM

I haven't seen a BL in this mellinium, but whenever I had to fly a BL4, I always put BL3 optics on it and used a super light-weight ccd eyepiece tap I made. When I weighed it in this configuration it was about 33 lbs without a lens.

For those of you geeks who collect weight data like me -- I took the camera I'm flying on my current show (Pana XL) off the sled and threw it onto my scale the other day, it was 34 lbs with the following:
400' mag/film, throat adaptor, low mode bracket, 2 pro plates, pana xl dovetail, hill ff bracket w/ 2 rods, 2 preston motors (dm-1's), cine-tape (display + horns on the arf), all camera and preston cables, 50mm primo, clip-on mb, pola.

a LW with the same stuff is about 2 lbs heavier than the above example. The last time I flew the 535B I weighed it as well -- 34 lbs with the following aks:
400' lw mag/film, 1 preston motor, 2 pro plates, low mode bracket, camera/preston cables, clip-on mb, 75mm Cooke prime. Add a cinetape, another motor and some filters and it starts to get a bit beefy.

rb
  • 0

#11 Erwin Landau

Erwin Landau

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 1699 posts
  • TBD

Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:52 PM

Ehh, isn't that the other way around? The Moviecam compact existed long before the Arricam ST/LT, in fact, the reason for Arri to buy Moviecam was exactly that they needed their technology/movement, they could not make anything lighter than that and were stuck with the BL type movement.



Yeah the Arricam is based on the Moviecam... and the Arricam returned the favor to the Compact MK2. You open up the door and the Arricam name just pops from all the parts in the movements... The View finder is ST the Video Assist is ST etc.... Haven't seen an original Compact in a while now... it's like a second coming for the old lady...

About the 535B... after a day with it, my knees hurt... everybody is like: "How is your Back?" Fine it's the ankles, knees and hips that are going down the pooper... I did 5 hours with a 435 today all down hill on a mountain... Just two words: Knees Hurt!


Erwin
  • 0

#12 RobVanGelder

RobVanGelder

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 919 posts
  • Bangkok, Thailand

Posted 09 October 2007 - 09:32 AM

True, Erwin, I just asked for a quote for upgrading our Moviecam Compact (bought from Clairmont Camera) and got a shock:
After the full upgrade, viewfinder, 3/4perf movement and IVS and new electronics we are down for more than 75.000 EURO, that is one expensive old lady!!!!

better buy a Arricam LT..........
  • 0

#13 Matt Petrosky

Matt Petrosky

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 190 posts
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:32 PM

Except that an Arricam LT is over 200.000 Euros, and that's just the body. You would also need new mags, accessories, etc. The Compact MkII is a great option for owners that's a RELATIVELY reasonable cost, relatively being the operative word.

-Matt
  • 0

#14 Charles Papert

Charles Papert

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2224 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:20 AM

I flew a Compact MK2 the other weekend and found it noticeably heavier than a LW2--had to crank the springs up considerably, and was showing a few extra inches of center post. There's definitely that "sweet spot" for flying weight that one gets used to and it's disconcerting to fly what seems like an arbitrarily heavier body (i.e. it doesn't do anything more or different).

Might also be worth mentioning that because of a mishap on the way to and from set (via stakebed) my front battery position became unuseable and I had to work in dual battery 24v mode. The Compact powered fine but connecting the video tap to the rig caused a short of some kind and the internal fuse in the battery kept popping. Couldn't get to the bottom of it, ended up gaffing an outboard AB plate to the front of the rig and getting through the day (thanks Greg Bubb and Erwin for assistance in getting me back up and running after that), but it was touch-and-go for a while there. It did remind me of the "good old days" as I pulled out various ancient and rarely used bits and pieces from the case during the troubleshooting phase. Anyone experience anything like this with this camera...?
  • 0




GPI Pro Systems

Varizoom Follow Focus

Wireless Video Systems

BOXX

Ritter Battery

SkyDreams

PLC - Bartech

rebotnix Technologies

Boland Communications

IDX

Teradek

PLC Electronics Solutions

Omnishot Systems

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

Paralinx LLC

Engineered Cinema Solutions

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS