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Panavision Genesis


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#1 Mitch Gross

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 04:22 PM

Check it out--it'll be at Cinegear.

http://www.hollywood...t_id=1000527854
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#2 guillermo nespolo

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 06:02 PM

i hate hd cameras...cause they geting good and they dont smell like negative
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#3 David Allen Grove

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 06:16 PM

i hate hd cameras...cause they geting good and they dont smell like negative

Embrace the horror! :o
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#4 Stephen Murphy

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 09:27 AM

In another article about the Panavision Genesis there is mention of a new Panaflex XL2. At least they're still making film cameras:)
Sounds like there's going to be a hell of a lot of cool new toys to see at Cinegear!

http://www.dailynews...2202864,00.html
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#5 maxfischer

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 11:49 AM

As the owner of a bunch of film gear, I share the horror, but hey, it's progress. At least I can use my lenses and AKS forever.

A few questions: does the Genesis have an optical or video finder? Is it officially available for rental yet? And anyone have any inside info on when Arri will be introducing theirs (I know that they've been showing the prototype around). I'm suprised I haven't read anything on CML about either camera. Max
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#6 maxfischer

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 11:53 AM

I just read the article and answered most of my questions! Max.
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#7 RobVanGelder

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:00 PM

Somewhere in the article is mentioned that it has NO optical viewvinder but they are looking ito that possibility.
However, according to them that is another challenge that has yet to be tackled.
In other words, it´s not so easy.

And with the recorder it´s a BIG animal to schlepp around, either on top or on the back. And it has the weight of a nice BL4 or such. Not very Steadi-Friendly yet.

when the recorder is on the top it´s just too high and the weight is all up there too, same when at the back, too long, with a nice Pana zoom ( a shorty) + clip-on mattebox it will be around 80-90 cms long (or more) and that´s about the same as the normal Panavised CineAlta. Which is TOO long in my opinion.

Basically for us Steadi-ops not an improvement in handling, only the image output is much better. (But than again, we already had that on FILM)

Rob van Gelder, Bangkok, Thailand
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#8 Richard W. Davis

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 07:30 PM

Dear Rob,

Having seen it yesterday at cinegear I will dispute some of your comments....Size length etc is nearly identical to Millenium XL. Nothing like the length of the normal 900 cine alta. Weight is also nearly identical. I think it is a great step forward for steadicam. Still some hurdles but the engineers listened as many steadicam ops gave them an earload.

Cheers,

Rich Davis
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#9 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 02:09 AM

Somewhere in the article is mentioned that it has NO optical viewvinder but they are looking ito that possibility. However, according to them that is another challenge that has yet to be tackled. In other words, it´s not so easy.

And with the recorder it´s a BIG animal to schlepp around, either on top or on the back. And it has the weight of a nice BL4 or such. Not very Steadi-Friendly yet.

when the recorder is on the top it´s just too high and the weight is all up there too, same when at the back, too long, with a nice Pana zoom ( a shorty) + clip-on mattebox it will be around 80-90 cms long (or more) and that´s about the same as the normal Panavised CineAlta. Which is TOO long in my opinion.

Basically for us Steadi-ops not an improvement in handling, only the image output is much better. (But than again, we already had that on FILM)

Wow you post could not be more wrong, you have obviously never seen it.

After a Long Talk with Al Mayer jr (Tech Director of Pananvision) he said that there will NO optical viewfinder. Two reason's why, the IR filter will get dust on it and we will photograph that dust and the other reason is that when that shutter is parked in the viewing position the villiage will not get an HD Image.

The Camera in Full on Steadicam mode is 26lbs which is at least 10 lbs lighter then the BL4. and the back mount recorder is PERFECT.

With Lens LMB and recoder your looking at a 24" long camera or the EXACT SAME SIZE as a Millennium...

For Steadi Ops it's a HUGE improvement and the image is QUITE good.

Rob I'm not sure where you got your information but I played with the camera and talked to Al Mayer Jr for about 1 hour between yesterday and today so I KNOW that my information is good.
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#10 Charles Papert

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 07:05 AM

Viewfinder still exhibits nasty strobing, although sharp and in color. Chris Haarhoff pointed out that the time-honored tradition of having the connectors on the New York side of the camera has been upheld, sadly for us (or at least the majority of us who operate with the rig on the left side of the body, thus inviting the side-protruding cables to float around our head). Eric and/or Dan, if you too consider this a design flaw, please make a case to have them moved to the back/somewhere less annoying.
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#11 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 10:23 AM

If you leave the recorder at engineering and run fiber optic to the camera from there (since I have always been tethered to the big monitor when using the current generation of cameras) this camera will be a dream to fly. No longer will we be sadled with those HUGE HD zooms Panavision supplies and 3 feet of camera behind. Regular Primos + 13.5lbs sound pretty sweet to me. And with the fiber optic connection may come down-converted video for your monitor. Yes, still that awful strobing while looking through the viewfinder. Sadly,that's what comes with 24p.
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#12 RobVanGelder

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 10:34 AM

Eric, I stand corrected on the weights, I looked that up again in the archives and the Genesis is a lot lighter than a BL4, about 7-8 lbs ( about 25%).
What´s the weight of a Panavised F900, BTW?
I have had such a pig on my sled for a long time but there was never a scale in the neighbourhood.

the length: the pictures I´ve seen show a recorder on top, that means more than 10 pounds on top and it brings the Center of Gravity very high. The length is good.
However, if I imagine the same recorder behind it, than the length could be similar as
a normal 900?

You say the length with lens LMB is 24" ( 61 cms), is that with the recorder at the back?
If it is, that´s not too bad.

I will not argue with you about all other things you´ve said, you talked with the guys and are well informed.
Sorry if I misjudged some things about the Genesis.

:(

Rob van Gelder

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#13 Erwin Landau

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Posted 20 June 2004 - 04:50 AM

Having talked to my prep guy at Panavision and Howard Preston who was consulted but not heard for the development of the Camera... there came up a couple of not told things:

- The Prototype runs at 50 fps and due to that fact get's so hot that fans kick in to cool it down which in return turns the Camera into a MOS Camera.

- It's very power hungry as of right now... 2 hours on a block? How long will our Steadi batts last? (Is that true?)

- The weight that got quoted to me was heavier then a Millenium and lighter then a Platinum with conversion.

- The camera runs on 24 Volt and the "Magazine" Deck on 12 Volt.

- They never tried the Camera in Steadicam mode and there is no lowmode Bracket in existence right now.

- I did not see a 10 pin Lemo for run on that camera (Correct me If I'm wronge), do we need a new run for that?


I'm supposed to check it out in the next future... I'll make nice Steadi pictures...


Erwin " Not everything that shines is Gold..." Landau, SOC
www.landaucamera.com
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#14 RobVanGelder

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Posted 20 June 2004 - 12:43 PM

If you leave the recorder at engineering and run fiber optic to the camera from there .

But isn´t it one of our main concerns? To get a wire-free, coax, triax or fiber, solution while maintaining the best image quality?

When you split the system, you are back to zero again! Please give me back my 535b! :P

No, the kinetta is a much better approach, for sure.

And if I see (from Erwins post) that it is at this moment a MOS camera that we cannot even feed on our batteries.......

The picture may look good, but at an enormous expense and certainly not a major improvement for us.


Rob van Gelder
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#15 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 02:00 AM

Having talked to my prep guy at Panavision and Howard Preston who was consulted but not heard for the development of the Camera... there came up a couple of not told things:


Be wary of Rumors... I've played with the camera and am going in to do a more rigorous test of it in the next few weeks

- The Prototype runs at 50 fps and due to that fact get's so hot that fans kick in to cool it down which in return turns the Camera into a MOS Camera.


Not certain that I understand that "The Prototype runs at 50fps" comment. Yes the Pre-Production Prototype runs hot, but that's not the one that is working and slated to be the final camera. The Current camera has Active, Passive and Liquid Cooling and runs almost cold to the touch.

- It's very power hungry as of right now... 2 hours on a block? How long will our Steadi batts last? (Is that true?)


Again that is a camera that is a "Breadboard Version" the main problem is the recorder section.

- The weight that got quoted to me was heavier then a Millenium and lighter then a Platinum with conversion.


Having held it on Steadicam mode with it's recoder but no lo-mode bracket it's the same weight as a straight Millenium maybe a touch lighter.

- The camera runs on 24 Volt and the "Magazine" Deck on 12 Volt.


Now that's some really bad info. The camera and Deck run on 12 volts you only need 24V IF your going to run the Panavision FIZSAC or any other panavision 24 volt accessories.

- They never tried the Camera in Steadicam mode and there is no lowmode Bracket in existence right now. 



That's what I'm doing in the next week or so.

- I did not see a 10 pin Lemo for run on that camera (Correct me If I'm wronge), do we need a new run for that?


That is still in the design and developement stage, so is the onboard Downcoverter.

Right now this camera is a work in progress and I thank Phil Raden and Al Mayer jr for letting me test it and give input.

Until Novemeber rolls around most of the things you hear about this camera are in a state of flux and Rental Tech are probally not the best source of info.


Eric Fletcher SOC
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