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Sled able to run firewire down post?


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#1 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:48 AM

Hello, I am looking for a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post. I have an indicam dual spring arm and pilot, that I am mainly using with a XHA1 with sony LED wireless audio, Firestore DTE, and would like to add a monitor, so I am trying to find a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post to the bottom, its a large head to the firewire cable and I would prefer not to cut and try to solder it since its firewire.

I currently have the wire running outside the post from the top to bottom and feel its not allowing me to fully balance the camera. You can see the wire in a shot of me here http://stepheneastwo.....673copy 2.htm to see what I mean.

Any help would be appreciated.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com
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#2 Rob Vuona SOC

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:58 AM

Hello, I am looking for a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post. I have an indicam dual spring arm and pilot, that I am mainly using with a XHA1 with sony LED wireless audio, Firestore DTE, and would like to add a monitor, so I am trying to find a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post to the bottom, its a large head to the firewire cable and I would prefer not to cut and try to solder it since its firewire.

I currently have the wire running outside the post from the top to bottom and feel its not allowing me to fully balance the camera. You can see the wire in a shot of me here http://stepheneastwo.....673copy 2.htm to see what I mean.

Any help would be appreciated.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

---------------------------
Hey Steven,
I'm defering to the expert Peter Abraham regarding the Flyer, But it seems like that would be the perfect rig for you to mod for the type of shooting you are doing. I haven't taken one apart but if it does come apart and accomodate your cableing needs, it will be worlds away from the one in the picture you are flying.

Email Peter and get the run down on the flyer.

Good Luck
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#3 Afton Grant

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 07:55 AM

You can see the wire in a shot of me here http://stepheneastwo.....673copy 2.htm to see what I mean.


Hey Alec, you might want to ask him what his trick is. I don't remember you looking that good after shooting through all that fire on Rescue Me. Ha ha.



Hey Stephen,

If it turns out that modification of the sled is too difficult, would it be possible to mount the Firestore at the top and just add some counterweight at the bottom?
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#4 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

You can see the wire in a shot of me here http://stepheneastwo.....673copy 2.htm to see what I mean.


Hey Alec, you might want to ask him what his trick is. I don't remember you looking that good after shooting through all that fire on Rescue Me. Ha ha.



Hey Stephen,

If it turns out that modification of the sled is too difficult, would it be possible to mount the Firestore at the top and just add some counterweight at the bottom?


I could mount it up top, the problem is its all weight up top, camera, LED, Battery, Firestore, wireless reciever, and now a metal housing to mount the firestore under the camera which would get very top heavy.
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#5 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:17 PM

I'm not sure whether you would be able to modify the Flyer to get firewire down the post - there might be issues getting the cable through at both ends...

What I can tell you, is that you can fit a firestore / hard drive nicely on the Flyer's monitor bracket - I did this the other week, and it fits nicely between the monitor and the post. However, I did this with the firewire cable running up to the camera, as you describe, and a zoom demand on the gimbal, so far from ideal in terms of cabling. Balancing was OK for both static and DB, but it was a slight issue in terms of freedom of movement when operating, and a constant paranoia that the cable would become loose at camera or hard drive end - given the shot was a constant 90 minute take, it would have been disasterous if this had happened!
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#6 Eric Young

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 04:27 AM

Hello, I am looking for a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post...Any help would be appreciated.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

---------------------------
Hey Steven,
I'm defering to the expert Peter Abraham regarding the Flyer, But it seems like that would be the perfect rig for you to mod for the type of shooting you are doing. I haven't taken one apart but if it does come apart and accomodate your cableing needs, it will be worlds away from the one in the picture you are flying.


I've had my Flyer apart (not easy!), and can tell you there is barely room in the post for the existing cables let alone another! It MAY be possible if you completely strip out the existing cable connector inside the post, and rewire using the thinnest firewire cable you can find, but then it may be harder to sell on your Flyer as it would be very non-standard.

It already has a monitor, and video cable down the post, so no need for a video cable.

Cheers
Eric

Edited by Eric Young, 14 August 2007 - 04:30 AM.

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#7 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 03:42 AM

Hello, I am looking for a sled that will allow me to run a firewire and video cable down the post...Any help would be appreciated.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

---------------------------
Hey Steven,
I'm defering to the expert Peter Abraham regarding the Flyer, But it seems like that would be the perfect rig for you to mod for the type of shooting you are doing. I haven't taken one apart but if it does come apart and accomodate your cableing needs, it will be worlds away from the one in the picture you are flying.


I've had my Flyer apart (not easy!), and can tell you there is barely room in the post for the existing cables let alone another! It MAY be possible if you completely strip out the existing cable connector inside the post, and rewire using the thinnest firewire cable you can find, but then it may be harder to sell on your Flyer as it would be very non-standard.

It already has a monitor, and video cable down the post, so no need for a video cable.

Cheers
Eric



If I only ran one TV signal and one firewire down the post would it fit? and could I get it through the holes or have to make them larger? How large of a flyer would I need for say 15lbs of camera equipment (Camera, LED/Battery/firestore/8inch screen and battery) spread over top and bottom.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Edited by Stephen Eastwood, 21 August 2007 - 03:44 AM.

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#8 Charles Papert

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 05:48 AM

Stephen:

What exactly are the balance problems you are experiencing by having an external cable? There shouldn't be any as long as the cable is running from top to bottom of the rig (as opposed to exiting the rig and attaching to a point on your body or beyond).

It looks from the picture as though you have a certain amount of slack on that external cable, which may be the problem. If the cable is allowed to flop or twist when you make moves, it will indeed affect the feel of the rig. If you were to dress it so that it exited the top of the rig from directly under the lens hood and made a straight line down to the front of the rig, keeping it fairly taught, you shouldn't have any flopping issues and it will keep out of the way of your grip hand.

This is how rigs were cabled for years, in the case of the Model 1 and 2. I used to have a fairly thick bundle of cables going down the front post of my Model 1 and it didn't affect the operation of the rig. It does affect your ability to spin balance the system (maybe this is what you are referring to) but you simply do your spin balancing first then re-attach the cable.

Certainly it is preferable to have internal wiring, but there are certain compromises with a less-expensive rig, and as long as it doesn't interfere with the actual operating...
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#9 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 02:35 PM

Stephen:

What exactly are the balance problems you are experiencing by having an external cable? There shouldn't be any as long as the cable is running from top to bottom of the rig (as opposed to exiting the rig and attaching to a point on your body or beyond).

It looks from the picture as though you have a certain amount of slack on that external cable, which may be the problem. If the cable is allowed to flop or twist when you make moves, it will indeed affect the feel of the rig. If you were to dress it so that it exited the top of the rig from directly under the lens hood and made a straight line down to the front of the rig, keeping it fairly taught, you shouldn't have any flopping issues and it will keep out of the way of your grip hand.

This is how rigs were cabled for years, in the case of the Model 1 and 2. I used to have a fairly thick bundle of cables going down the front post of my Model 1 and it didn't affect the operation of the rig. It does affect your ability to spin balance the system (maybe this is what you are referring to) but you simply do your spin balancing first then re-attach the cable.

Certainly it is preferable to have internal wiring, but there are certain compromises with a less-expensive rig, and as long as it doesn't interfere with the actual operating...


main issue is that while panning it gets tighter and pulls or jerks, I tried it tighter and that allowed far less panning before it was pulled back. Without it it is much smoother and glides nicer. A limitation I could live with, but it seems that running the wire down would eliminate it so I am trying to see if its doable. I will try it tighter as you described and see if that helps. Thanks.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Edited by Stephen Eastwood, 21 August 2007 - 02:38 PM.

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#10 Tom Wills

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 04:16 PM

If the wire is strung from the front of the topstage to the front of the base plate, there will be no difference between it being there and it not, except for spin balancing. Gaffer tape it on both ends, so it's reasonably taught. For about a week I had to fly a sled with video and power running from the back of the monitor to the front of the topstage, and it worked well, though I have thankfully fixed the internal wiring. The main issue I think you're having is that it's wrapped around the center post, and therefore needs to be loose to keep from touching the gimbal, which then can allow for it to flop around and cause balance problems or get caught.
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#11 Eric Young

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:46 AM

...If I only ran one TV signal and one firewire down the post would it fit? and could I get it through the holes or have to make them larger? How large of a flyer would I need for say 15lbs of camera equipment (Camera, LED/Battery/firestore/8inch screen and battery) spread over top and bottom.
Stephen Eastwood...


The limiting factor is the internal diameter of the Flyer post, and it's only 11mm, so you won't get a 6pin firewire connector down there, and would probably be out of luck with even a 4pin firewire connector. Your only sensible option would be to run the thinnest firewire cable you could find without connectors, then wire third party connectors on afterwords. As I said you would have to strip out the internal connector block inside the bottom of the post where the battery power cable is split to feed the monitor and the power connector on the camera plate at the top of the post. It practically fills the bore of the Flyer post and probably wouldn't allow another cable to fit through.

The top specified limit of camera kit that the Flyer can fly is 15lbs. But remember you can power the camera off the Flyer battery with the right connectors and cables, and the Flyer has it's own 7" 16x9 monitor.

Disclaimer: any dismantling of the Flyer would void any warranty if new, and might well do serious expensive damage to your rig. Proceed at your own risk!!

Edited by Eric Young, 22 August 2007 - 09:48 AM.

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#12 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 06:57 PM

...If I only ran one TV signal and one firewire down the post would it fit? and could I get it through the holes or have to make them larger? How large of a flyer would I need for say 15lbs of camera equipment (Camera, LED/Battery/firestore/8inch screen and battery) spread over top and bottom.
Stephen Eastwood...


The limiting factor is the internal diameter of the Flyer post, and it's only 11mm, so you won't get a 6pin firewire connector down there, and would probably be out of luck with even a 4pin firewire connector. Your only sensible option would be to run the thinnest firewire cable you could find without connectors, then wire third party connectors on afterwords. As I said you would have to strip out the internal connector block inside the bottom of the post where the battery power cable is split to feed the monitor and the power connector on the camera plate at the top of the post. It practically fills the bore of the Flyer post and probably wouldn't allow another cable to fit through.

The top specified limit of camera kit that the Flyer can fly is 15lbs. But remember you can power the camera off the Flyer battery with the right connectors and cables, and the Flyer has it's own 7" 16x9 monitor.

Disclaimer: any dismantling of the Flyer would void any warranty if new, and might well do serious expensive damage to your rig. Proceed at your own risk!!



Are there audio cables running down the post? if so maybe I could put the harddrive on top and audio receivers below and run the two xlr cables up instead.
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#13 Charles Papert

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 07:25 PM

Stephen, did you try restringing the cable so that it does not contact the center post at all (i.e. travels from front of the rig straight down to the monitor, not wrapping around the post)? I have a feeling this will far and away be the easiest setup for you to deal with, no modification of the rig necessary. Just to clarify again, the cables should be as far forward as possible (my suggestion again is to perhaps velcro them under the lens hood of your camera, or as Tom said to the front of the camera mounting plate) and run them down to the back of the monitor in a STRAIGHT LINE, not wrapped around the post. You just need them taut enough to prevent flopping when you spin the camera, not so taut as to strain the monitor mount. Velcro clasps on both ends will make this very easy. There should be no interference with or influence on your operating except perhaps in Don Juan where it could contact your wrist or arm.
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#14 Eric Young

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 08:19 PM

Are there audio cables running down the post? if so maybe I could put the harddrive on top and audio receivers below and run the two xlr cables up instead.


There are no audio cables down the post - just video and DC power.
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#15 Stephen Eastwood

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:38 AM

Stephen, did you try restringing the cable so that it does not contact the center post at all (i.e. travels from front of the rig straight down to the monitor, not wrapping around the post)? I have a feeling this will far and away be the easiest setup for you to deal with, no modification of the rig necessary. Just to clarify again, the cables should be as far forward as possible (my suggestion again is to perhaps velcro them under the lens hood of your camera, or as Tom said to the front of the camera mounting plate) and run them down to the back of the monitor in a STRAIGHT LINE, not wrapped around the post. You just need them taut enough to prevent flopping when you spin the camera, not so taut as to strain the monitor mount. Velcro clasps on both ends will make this very easy. There should be no interference with or influence on your operating except perhaps in Don Juan where it could contact your wrist or arm.



I am doing that, it works thanks for the advice, I am still just looking for a more finished and polished approach to the problem. I cannot believe I am the only one with an issue like this. Would seem logical put a slightly larger tube, and run one power one video, one firewire down it, or dual audio and forget the firewire.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Edited by Stephen Eastwood, 26 August 2007 - 11:39 AM.

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