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powering 435 from PRO?


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#1 Rusty Geller

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 09:03 PM

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'm been living in Perth, Western Australia -- out on the edge of the planet -- the last 4 years so I don't get to town much anymore. I'm up for a big second unit gig and they want to fly the 435. I have a PROII with Hytron 50's which are a bit long in the tooth (old). I've had problems running the only, old, 435 here in Perth, and am wondering if there is a later version of 435 that is kinder on start-up and speed. The cameras will be coming from either Sydney or the Gold Coast, so I might have a choice if I ask early. Also there is the posiblility of using a 235. How does the 235 fly? Can you put 400' mags on it? Will the 435 bracketry & cables work?

Cheers, Rusty
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#2 Howard J Smith

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 10:08 PM

Hi Rusty

How are you?

Ok - if you can the 235 with 400 ARRI mags - this will be the answer to all your problems.
If not the 435 wil be fine if you use a Ni-cad battery on the 24v side.
The newer 435's are much worst than the older models and can draw upto 18 amps on start up.
Aviod the extreme....
Another trick is to start the camera in 24fps and then when at speed flick it into vari.
Some have 'soft start' so it will never go mental and draw 18 amps.
If you are shooting 24fps then you should not really have too many problems.
Just let the camera come up to speed before you do any big focus pulls.

Jerry Hill does a great low mode than can tilt as well - well worth looking into.

Hope this helps
All the best
Howard
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#3 Dan Coplan

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 01:37 AM

235 - cool camera, sucks to fly. It is way too light. I had the misfortune of having to fly one in the desert on a windy day. Pretty much caught the wind and it was more effort keeping that thing from flopping around then sprinting through the woods with a 535B.

See if you can get production to rent the batteries you need for the 435. I do that anyway when I'm on shows with cameras that drain a lot of juice.

Dan
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#4 nealnorton

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 06:21 AM

Hi Rusty:

I just did a couple of days with a 435 running at 120fps. I had no problems at all. Pro rig with 2 dionic 90s on the back and a hytron 120 on the front. This is my standard battery setup. Camera came right up to speed. I keep waiting for my dionics to fail, but so far after 2 years they are still working very well. I think you would be happy with the performance. Also, I have found that the FX box is a great addition to the 435 in doing high speed stuff. . . very slick.

Neal
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#5 Erwin Landau

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:20 PM

Hi Rusty,

A very long time, hope all is well with you and your loved ones....

I just did 3 weeks second unit with a 435 and a 235... on a motorcycle.

About the 235... The main problem with that cameras is that it's that new that most rental houses do not own all the AKS that you would require. The steadimags are mainly mistaken for the Dolphin shaped ones or you are getting the SL cine ones which are not great mags. The body is so light that it will hugely depend on the Lens and Mag model to balance nicer. Don't lose the view finder (for weight) and if you can get the onboard battery (so far only one rental house here has them) they solve the power and weight issue.
Production was actually shocked that I opted to fly the 435 on steadi versus the 235. They thought that they did me a favor by getting the smaller camera. This camera is great for handheld and that's about it...

Also the DP never was comfortable running the camera faster then 40 fps and was worried about the registration because of the violent nature of our shoot.

The 435 and the 435 ES are power hogs and depending on your batteries will refuse to turn over. Starting with the 435 Advanced, the camera received a slow speed up or soft start, which delays the ramping by a couple of seconds and delaying/softening the power spike. We used the 435 Xtreme which is the latest of the 435's with build in FEM (it has a build in MDR for the ARRI follow focus. It makes the camera a little motor side heavy as the FEM is added on top of the IVS 2.
I'm running Trimpac's and Proformers and never had any issues, including high speed...

GPI changed there battery set up from 9 Hyrton 50's to 6 Hytrons and 4 Proformers. That was until the Proformers got discontinued. Now they offer either the Hytron 50's or the Dionic 90.

Dan Kneece is still running the Hytrons and according to him, he never had issues with the 435. Jim McConkey is using the Dionics and is happy with it.

Unless you are running the camera continuously at 150 fps, you shouldn't have issues with fresh batteries... or just add a NiCad as the 24 Volt Jumper. A Trimpac fits your top AB plate.

Maybe it's time to get a fresh set of batts. I heard rumors that Anton Bauer will have a new battery for CineGear this weekend... Let's see.

Good Luck,

Erwin
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#6 Rusty Geller

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 08:08 PM

Erwin, all's well at the edge of the world in Westren Australia. The word now is that it'll be 435's from Panavison Sydney. I'm hoping they have the Advanced. Either way I guess I'll ask for some Trimpaks. We will be running speed. How do the Trimpaks compare to the Hytrons in weight? How many Trimpaks should I order? Do they require a special charger, or will my AB Hytron chargers work?

Thanks, Rusty

Hi Rusty,

A very long time, hope all is well with you and your loved ones....

I just did 3 weeks second unit with a 435 and a 235... on a motorcycle.

About the 235... The main problem with that cameras is that it's that new that most rental houses do not own all the AKS that you would require. The steadimags are mainly mistaken for the Dolphin shaped ones or you are getting the SL cine ones which are not great mags. The body is so light that it will hugely depend on the Lens and Mag model to balance nicer. Don't lose the view finder (for weight) and if you can get the onboard battery (so far only one rental house here has them) they solve the power and weight issue.
Production was actually shocked that I opted to fly the 435 on steadi versus the 235. They thought that they did me a favor by getting the smaller camera. This camera is great for handheld and that's about it...

Also the DP never was comfortable running the camera faster then 40 fps and was worried about the registration because of the violent nature of our shoot.

The 435 and the 435 ES are power hogs and depending on your batteries will refuse to turn over. Starting with the 435 Advanced, the camera received a slow speed up or soft start, which delays the ramping by a couple of seconds and delaying/softening the power spike. We used the 435 Xtreme which is the latest of the 435's with build in FEM (it has a build in MDR for the ARRI follow focus. It makes the camera a little motor side heavy as the FEM is added on top of the IVS 2.
I'm running Trimpac's and Proformers and never had any issues, including high speed...

GPI changed there battery set up from 9 Hyrton 50's to 6 Hytrons and 4 Proformers. That was until the Proformers got discontinued. Now they offer either the Hytron 50's or the Dionic 90.

Dan Kneece is still running the Hytrons and according to him, he never had issues with the 435. Jim McConkey is using the Dionics and is happy with it.

Unless you are running the camera continuously at 150 fps, you shouldn't have issues with fresh batteries... or just add a NiCad as the 24 Volt Jumper. A Trimpac fits your top AB plate.

Maybe it's time to get a fresh set of batts. I heard rumors that Anton Bauer will have a new battery for CineGear this weekend... Let's see.

Good Luck,

Erwin


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#7 Erwin Landau

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 12:46 AM

Hey Rusty,

Trimpacs are NiCad Batteries and have been around for quite some time longer then the Hytrons, so they will charge just fine with your AB charger. Just one problem. GPI has modified the PRO 2 base (The Anton Bauer plates have been moved to allow the Proformers to fit on all 3 positions that was the only NiCad battery that would fit), that has only happend in the last 2 years, so yours will not have that mod. The Trimpac will only fit on the back top position (Aux position) on yours and only without the Onboard recorder mount.
You can put the Trimpac on the battery position (lower back) by grinding down the screw head of the screw that holds the back 2 battery positions in place. But Caution: This mod is not condoned by GPI and if you grind down the screw to much you will not be able to fold the Battery section to fit in your case....

You can either use 2 Nicads to power the Camera but you can also use one Nicad just as a jumper for the Nickel Metal Hydride Battery... Up to you. Test it at prep and see how long that will last... the more the merrier and you will never run out of batts...
That's why I run with 30 Batteries, 12 Trimpac and 18 Proformers but I never have to charge more then 8 batteries at the end of the day, including batteries for handheld monitor, receiver and work light. (... but that's just me).

The weight is 2.75 lbs. for the Trimpac versus the Hytron that is: 1.9 lbs.

Hope that helps.


Good Luck,


Erwin
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#8 Rusty Geller

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 03:34 AM

Hi guys, thanks for your replies. Just returned from the shoot. It was supposed to be 2 weeks, went 4, out in the wilds of norhtern Oz. Panavision Sydney had no trimpaks or dionic 90's. They convinced me to try IDX 10s's. They ran the 435 at 24, but at 48 it locked up and cooked the batts. Most of the job was shooting a cattle stampede from the back of an ATV, so I powered from a block battery. The on-foot stuff was 24, so the IDX's held. I guess I'll look into trimpaks. I'm up for a job with the Genesis, is there anything that wiill drive them? Rusty
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#9 Erwin Landau

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 04:08 AM

Hey Rusty,

What's going on... been a while. Unfortunately I had to retire the Aerostar...

But anyhow, there is a huge thread on the Genesis, if you want to check it out:

http://www.steadicam...p?showtopic=669


Hope all is well,


Erwin
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