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#1 Janice Arthur

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 11:57 AM

Hi all;

To my surprise I found out that my Walter P. Dolle policy does not cover anything that is "out of your care and control", namely any gear you rent/loan.

So you need really make sure you get a Cert. from your renter.

Also in discussing this with another Insurance person (not Walter P.) if you get a Cert. from a renter and they skip with your gear the company will not pay off!!!!

It shows that you didn't didn't check out your client well enough and you're then guilty of letting the gear out of your control.

This seems like a huge gap but apparently every Insurance does this.

(A couple of years ago a guy here rented a camera and the Cert. of Ins was bogus and his own insurance would not pay off when the camera never returned. I'd heard the story but I was unsure of the logic of it now I know.)

Walter P. is a great company and I've only had good experiences with them so this is no slam at them, just an FYI kind of post.

(Maybe you guys already know this, I didn't.)

Janice
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#2 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:04 PM

To my surprise I found out that my Walter P. Dolle policy does not cover anything that is "out of your care and control", namely any gear you rent/loan.

So you need really make sure you get a Cert. from your renter.

Also in discussing this with another Insurance person (not Walter P.) if you get a Cert. from a renter and they skip with your gear the company will not pay off!!!!

It shows that you didn't didn't check out your client well enough and you're then guilty of letting the gear out of your control.


Hi Janice, we've never met but I always appreciate your posts; particularly those on business practices and I admire your work as well, thanks.

I just want to understand what you are saying:

"Out of your care and control" as it's related to our own insurance of our equipment as it pertains to covering a scheduled loss during a rental. It would make sense that if you are not covered as a "rental house" persea, then your Inland Marine policy/equipment floater would not cover your gear while out on rental; thus the importance of getting a Certificate of Insurance from Production. There is a different level of risk for something out of our own care and control right? It's defining what exactly that term means.

So, if the above scenario is accurate it would sound like the choices are:
1.) Have a policy that covers your scheduled equipment in rental scenarios a/k/a "out of your care and control"
2.) Obtain and verify a valid Certificate of Insurance from Production, who in this case is the Rentor
3.) Do not separate out your equipment as a rental item so that it is covered under your own policy as it would be if you were using it personally (which I assume in most cases we are). You'd have to sort out how to roll it into some other category or into your fee to avoid calling it a rental as we all traditionally do.

On the second issue; "if you get a Cert. from a renter and they skip with your gear the company will not pay off"

This is one where I'd like to have more clarification because my understanding is that as long as the Rentor has Rented Equipment Coverage and their Cert lists "Miscellaneous Rented Equipment" in a sufficient amount in the "Other" section of "Coverages" you are covered by THEIR policy against Theft, Loss or Damage. Certainly we're all responsible to some degree to do our Due Deligence; that is to say take reasonable measures (whatever that would be) to make sure we know who we're renting to.

I have rentors insurance to cover outbound rentals on the camera packages and other equipment I own but I also require the Rentor to issue a certificate showing my company as not just the Additionally Insured but also the Loss Payee so if there is a loss the check is cut to us not the Rentor.

For instances where I'm the one renting equipment that is where my Miscellaneous Rented Equipment coverage covers the other company/person.

Just trying encapsulate this into a thought is tricky; no wonder insurance companies wiggle out of so much.

Is this how you understand it?

All the best,
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#3 Janice Arthur

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 07:23 PM

Robert;

3.) Do not separate out your equipment as a rental item so that it is covered under your own policy as it would be if you were using it personally (which I assume in most cases we are). You'd have to sort out how to roll it into some other category or into your fee to avoid calling it a rental as we all traditionally do.

You can "rent" your gear to the shoot as long as you're the one using it.

On the second issue; "if you get a Cert. from a renter and they skip with your gear the company will not pay off"

This is one where I'd like to have more clarification because my understanding is that as long as the Rentor has Rented Equipment Coverage and their Cert lists "Miscellaneous Rented Equipment" in a sufficient amount in the "Other" section of "Coverages" you are covered by THEIR policy against Theft, Loss or Damage. Certainly we're all responsible to some degree to do our Due Deligence; that is to say take reasonable measures (whatever that would be) to make sure we know who we're renting to.

This one seemed strange to me too, which is why I posted this stuff. Gear is clearly covered on their rental policy as a loss due to damage, theft etc. What seems to be the "loophole" is that if the client simply runs off with the equipment. Your insurance won't pay because you didn't do diligence in checking out your client. (It seems that now we'd have to ask whether their policy would kick in, as it should and cover the stolen gear.) (I will ask this point again.)

(Another point here, get a credit card for the amount of the deductable, so you're not holding the bag for that. One recent rental policy had a $2500 deductable, which I didn't want to pay out just in case.)


I have rentors insurance to cover outbound rentals on the camera packages and other equipment I own but I also require the Rentor to issue a certificate showing my company as not just the Additionally Insured but also the Loss Payee so if there is a loss the check is cut to us not the Rentor.

For instances where I'm the one renting equipment that is where my Miscellaneous Rented Equipment coverage covers the other company/person.

(We're the reputable renters and we have insurance for the gear we rent and we don't leave town.)

[i]Janice
(now I have a headache)

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#4 Jeff Muhlstock SOC

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:21 AM

Robert;
This one seemed strange to me too, which is why I posted this stuff. Gear is clearly covered on their rental policy as a loss due to damage, theft etc. What seems to be the "loophole" is that if the client simply runs off with the equipment. Your insurance won't pay because you didn't do diligence in checking out your client. (It seems that now we'd have to ask whether their policy would kick in, as it should and cover the stolen gear.) (I will ask this point again.)


[i]Janice
(now I have a headache)


Hey Janice, my understanding with this stuff is the insurance company will simply need a police report to clarify/prove a theft. So if someone runs off with your gear and you file a police report that its been stolen, they will cover you. Pretty basic definition of stolen. The issue is the police report.

Jeff
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