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Multiple Vests?


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#1 Jamie Hammond

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 09:47 AM

I'm just wondering if there are any other ops that carry both front and back mounted vests. I upgraded to Master elite a couple of years ago that came with an Ultra vest. I have rarely used the vest as I much prefer my Action Products back mounted vest, and as I have always used this I do find the Ultra vest little un-comfortable. The question is that I nearly always carry both vests with me just in case I am in a very tight situation and the AP vest won't squeeze through. The Ultra vest has been out on a few occasions(on a bus, tight hallways etc..) but I kinda see it as an extravagence, which I could sell on.
Have any ops bitten the bullet and dumped the front for the back mounted vest completley?

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

Jamie "slightly strapped for cash " Hammond
:lol:
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#2 Afton Grant

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 11:25 AM

Hi Jamie,

I sold my front mount to pay for a down payment on a back mount. Walter was great in giving me a free loaner while mine was being built too. Thanks Walter! Anyway, if I had the finances to do so, I would've definitely kept my front mount. I know of many ops that use a back mount almost all the time, but keep a front mount in their kit just in case. It's a good idea for the reasons you mentioned. Not extravagant at all. It's being prepared for anything. Many of the same guys have 2 arms, 2 sleds, 2 Prestons, or more.

I'd be curious to know, are there any front mount guys that keep a back mount just in case? Sorry for not being able to come up with a hypothetical, but I thought I'd just pose the question.

Best,
Afton
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#3 Dan Coplan

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:25 PM

I don't yet, but yesterday I wish I was a front-mount guy who kept a back-mount as a backup. I like my front-mount vest (PRO), but I've been thinking a lot about getting a back-mount for days like yesterday. I was at a gallery shooting "on the fly". The featured artist showed up and I was supposed to follow him around wherever he went. HDX-900 so not too bad weight-wise. Followed him around downstairs for maybe 5 mins. - no problem. Then he decided to go upstairs - running! I kept up, but that probably knocked a good 5 mins. or so off my stamina and I was struggling shortly thereafter. Made it through 11 mins. good, steadi footage but then simply had to put the rig down. Was thinking with a back-mount I could've gone much longer.

Then again, 11 mins. straight was a good, fair chunk of footage for the client and I'm not $6,000 poorer. Then aGAIN, if I ever had to do something like sports or a concert where the footage needs were more demanding...

Dan
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#4 Erwin Landau

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:38 AM

I used to have the PRO Vest actually through strange and involuntary circumstances, like theft, I had 3 over the years. For the last 4 years I had the DSD and now the Klassen. (I have yet again a PRO on order).

After very long and fruitful discussions with Mark O'Kane (he designed the PRO Vest) and other operators, we came to the conclusion that, in a perfect world, you should have both. Mark actually, before retiring, was about to order a Klassen Vest. It basically comes down to that... Your equipment is a tool chest or belt and each vest is a tool. Each tool is designed to do certain tasks. Different tools are designed for different requirements.

The more tools you have, the better you will be prepared for any on set requirements.

You will reach limits with each of the designs:

You can stay longer in the backmount, you are able to handle heavier loads, it facilitates breathing after long takes and makes your look offs more solid. It gives you a better posture. But also... I have damaged door frames and taken out set pieces... I had my circulation cut off by the harness and crashed because of it. Design got blamed for damages to the Socket block set up.

Frontmount... lower profile, less trouble to hide under your cloths for foul weather. Better for running and on stairs. 30 year proven design. But also... Quicker fatigue and soar backs after long days. Lower weight limit on cameras. Easier transmission of chest movement to the camera after running shots.

I was told that of late, the general opinion is shifting back to the front mounted Vest, after a huge stint with the backmounts. More people are opting for the front mount. I heard that a certain DP will not hire ops with backmounts because of the increased damage on set from the carbon arm and the back-screw.


It used to be preference but as of late with wider use of both designs, it has shown its self that both have strong as well as weak points. It's up to you to determine which point are neglect-able...

Also money should not be a driving factor, it usually is, even though the different models of both vests have shifted so much that you can find models in comparable price ranges... Front mount mid $3000.- up to low $5000.- as with Back mount mid $3000.- up to high $8000.-

Hope that helps,

Erwin
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#5 Jamie Hammond

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 02:31 AM

Thanks for the replies. I think I will hold onto the Ultra vest. It would be just my luck, the day I come to sell it I would have a 6 week shoot on a submarine, or bus or rocket or any other slimlined set. :lol:
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#6 JamieSilverstein

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:47 AM

Jamie;
It is a good idea to hold on to it. I did a shot on Criminal Intent walking down the isle of a bus with my back mounted vest and it was almost impossible. I was virtually sideways, with the rig out in front of me. The vest took most of the weight and put it in its proper places (not my lower back), but the sheer torque and clumsiness of the shot made it absolutely no fun at all. Not to mention that it took longer than anyone wanted just to figure out how to fit in to the space.
That is what you get for not getting any scouts or information before the shot.......
Keep the vest.
Jamie.
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#7 Erwin Landau

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 08:25 PM

A funny story...

I once again did some pick ups for a movie. It wouldn't be a very interesting story without the fact that I started this Feature almost 5 years ago... (Taj and Michael, yes that one "The Storyteller"). It was one of my first features with my Ultimate Sled and with my Klassen Vest (at that point still a DSD). We are still shooting at a mansion in the Hollywood Hills, 1920ies style multi level design. Very narrow corridors and door frames (24 inches). In the past we had the redesign shots because I just couldn't fit through the doors.

(One shot: Actor kneeling in a corridor reading a letter. Move starts over head on the letter, pulling out into an over the shoulder and keep on pulling out until a full body of the actor. Problem: the way they wanted me to pull out was going through the 20 inch wide bathroom door... but at that point I was still in a 60 degree angle with the rig as I reach the door. Straight back I was to wide with the vest to fit... extending the arms and putting it in front of me to wide... Again sideways the carbon arm didn't fit etc. I believe they did it in the re-shoots and Taj forced his way through the door with his front mount vest.)

This time I had my PRO Vest. Moviecam. Aspect ratio 1:2.40. The shot:
Starting half way up a spiral stair case pointing over the banister down to the main entrance door. Enter 3 actors. 2 cops walk up the stairs, I stay in profile until the top of the stairs, I proceed one of the cops into the Living room (90 Degrees turn), through to the pantry (24 inch door) instant 90 degree left turn into kitchen (24 inch door) immediate right and pull back into the space that used to house the oven which we had removed. Now the shot turn into a POV out of the oven as the cop opens the oven door that was installed in front of me while I was pulling into the nuke... 10 takes (mostly for the performance and the door installation timing).
No way I could have fit there with my Klassen...

But did the walk and talks and the long tracking shots very comfortably with my Klassen Harness.

A couple of weeks ago I took the PRO workshop again, for one because I take it every year it's given and second to re-acquaint myself with the Vest that I had worn, the last time on a shoot, 5 years ago.

What I found was that my fatigue was kicking in way sooner that I had remembered with my Klassen, which was odd to me i was sweating and tired before I should have been. Since then I have used both vests and must say that I can without big fuzz change from one to the other and the quality of work and comfort are comparable.

Just a follow up to the Question "Multiple Vests?"...

Hell yah!

Erwin
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#8 thomas-english

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:51 AM

Easy Jamie, long time no hear!

Yeah, agree with Erwin snd co. keep the FM vest! definately. I have only pulled mine out once in the last years operating but ..... keep it

thomas
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#9 Iain Baird

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 03:11 PM

How about the Vest that offers both?

I?ve been using my Klassen Dual Mount Vest for over two years and it?s been everything I hoped it would be. The excellent craftsmanship and attention to detail makes it both a thing of beauty and a rugged workhorse all in one. When I first met with Walter I knew the advantages of the back mounted vests but I had reservations about the overall width of the harnesses. Based on my previous experiences I knew there would be times that I would want a thinner profile when maneuvering through tight spaces. Walter had heard similar concerns from other operators and with help from Garrett designed the Dual Mount as a solution. I felt more comfortable buying the Dual Mount Vest knowing that it wouldn?t limit me in what I was used to with my previous Front Mounted. That being said, most of the time I use it back mounted, but on many occasions for a variety of reasons I?ve been able to seamlessly switch to front mounted. In both modes it feels equally comfortable and performs just as well, I couldn?t be more pleased. Thanks to Walter and his entire crew for making such a wonderful product who?s sole function is to make our job easier.


IAIN BAIRD
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#10 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 03:00 PM

I just received my Klassen Universal #180 which I'm really happy with. I've been using a front mount for the best part of 5 years, a Master vest, which I actually found to be reasonably comfortable over time, and grew used to. I've always been happy with my posture and have always taken care to operate properly and stand up straight. When I was setting my Klassen up, I realised that I have actually developed an ever so slight lean to one side, and also a very slight lean backwards. With my Klassen now, I simply can't do this - not only does it support and protect the back, and distribute the weight more effectively for me personally, it encourages correct posture and corrects myself. Stood in front of a mirror, I can see the difference, just to look at. And the comfort and support is out of this world. Having been stood talking for 10 minutes, I realised that I was still wearing my Master - with my front mount, it would have been on my shoulder or on the stand within 5!

We all have different body types and different physiques and work in different ways, what works for one person may not work for the next, but I'm personally constantly surprised by the difference - totally blown away. I'd share Iain's sentiments - it's most definately a thing of beauty, but a definate workhorse and very well designed. Craftmanship is excellent, and it's nice to have a part of the system that's custom made for me - it's a part of me, and even has my name engraved on the leather, a nice touch - I'm a happy man!
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#11 Juan M.Ramos SOC

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 09:29 AM

Hy Guys!!!!
I think that both vest are complementary,also,I would try to change your ultra front vest for a PRO vest(it is lighter and it does feel comfortable).I have both and I use all the time,mostly my old DSD but many times in europe you need to shoot in natural sets and you need to fit into small places.
I know that is old but I`m still love my EFP vest,maybe one of the best in history.
all the best.
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#12 luis castro

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:59 AM

I'm just wondering if there are any other ops that carry both front and back mounted vests. I upgraded to Master elite a couple of years ago that came with an Ultra vest. I have rarely used the vest as I much prefer my Action Products back mounted vest, and as I have always used this I do find the Ultra vest little un-comfortable. The question is that I nearly always carry both vests with me just in case I am in a very tight situation and the AP vest won't squeeze through. The Ultra vest has been out on a few occasions(on a bus, tight hallways etc..) but I kinda see it as an extravagence, which I could sell on.
Have any ops bitten the bullet and dumped the front for the back mounted vest completley?

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

Jamie "slightly strapped for cash " Hammond
:lol:





the vest ultra2 is perfect I like so much
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