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IDX bateries plus SWIT charger...


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#1 Andrew Boch

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 09:04 PM

I am going to buy IDX Endura 10S bateries and compact cheap SWIT charger. for the road it must be real saver. but i am not good in electronics. please any comment if I can use long and safe to charge IDX Endura bateries with the SWIT charger?

Price is in big difference with original Endura chargers. I am concider to buy one of these chargers:

SWIT SC- 302S/A
http://www.videokit....c...&pid=79.htm

SWIT S-3010S
http://www.digibroad...s/1/S-3010S.htm

thank you

andrew
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#2 Brad Smith

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 04:42 AM

Andrew, I'm no battery expert (there are a few on this forum and they'll hopefully chime in) but why spend the extra cash on IDX batteries and then buy a Swit charger?

Swit make batteries aswell, in my experience they are cheaper and usually a few years behind the competion in terms of technology and thus quality. Even if they don't last you as long IDX's probably will, as at least they'll get you started with vlock Li Ion batts.

On the other hand you'll have the charger long after you've replaced the batteries - most Li Ion batts have a shelf life of 2 years though they continue to work with decreasing performance for much longer. You're only going to save about $100 USD on a Swit Charger that you'll still be using when it comes time to change over your batteries.

Each manufacturer's guff says that their chargers are specially designed to maximise the life of their batteries, I don't know how true that is but I reckon (IMHO) that IDX have a reputation for quality and performance that Swit can't lay claim to. I'd be choosing the same brand charger as the batts. Either, spend the cash and get the IDX charger and know it's not going to cook your batteries, or save the money on the batts, buy Swit everything you'll probably have no problems and the batts will just have a slightly shorter lifespan.

My 2 South Pacific Pesos :)
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#3 Jerry Holway

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 11:13 AM

Li-Ion cells are so funky.. hence the microprocessors inside each battery (clump of cells).

Anton Bauer recommends only using chargers and batteries from the same manufacturer - not their wonderful chargers for someone else's batts.

Jerry
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#4 Andrew Boch

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:16 AM

thank you Jerry and Brad for the inputs.

in my case the difference is not only $100 but at least 200 euro because cheapest IDX charger I was able to find here in europe internet shops is 577 euro and SWIT i found for 82 euro compact version and 350 euro dual chanel (both including VAT).

Also i was thinking to buy SWIT bateries but it little bigger in size, strange in shape and heavier in weight. I was afraid i will not be able to easy ballance Flyer with that bateries. If you think it is not big obstacle then i go for all-swit set of bateries and charger. For me IDX set is double of price as SWIT set, but again, if it is any problem to use SWIT with the Flyer then I go for all-IDX set.

so please what would you do in my case,

Andrew
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#5 Ron L Rathbone

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 02:02 PM

:) Good Day Andrew,

Points to note:
1. Each lithium ion battery pack assembler designs their own PCM board that MUST be attached to the Li-ON pack.
2. Most battery pack suppliers turn-key the assembly to receive and market their finished product.
3. Each assembler or final assembly house then attaches the finished Li-ON pack with the PCM board to that companies circuitry for their battery pack and their Li-ON charger.
4. In the case of Li-ON and the safety issues of Li-ON, the circuitry of the manufacturers charger and the manufacturers batttery MUST interface exactly.
5. No two companies are going to use the exact same circuitry so you do not mix Li-ON chargers and Li-ON batteries.
6. In the case of Li-ON improper interface of two companies Li-ON products, ie., the charger and the battery, can cause an extreme danager to product and personnel.

Also there is the posibility of recelling a few brand name Li-ON batteries like the Dionic series which Rathbone Energy does recell. This is not a project that we take lightly and invloves extreme attention through the entire recell process.

A few people may experience a situation where their Chinese charger and chinese battery are from different name companies and they do interface properly. This is simply a case of one supplier and multiple battery company marketers private labeling the same product.

Of course, the Cadex C7000 series of analyzers can be programmed for any brand Li-ON battery. Rathbone Energy sells these analyzers but because of their quality and their abilities they are more expensive than smart chargers from any manufacturer.

The following is not self promotion. Anyone using Li-ON really should read our article on The Negatives of Li-ON found at this link. We supply links to the manufacturers Specification sheets as well as the latest findings from the FAA. It is coming.

http://www.rathbonee...ion/lithium.htm

PAG, has as good a Li-ON as you can buy but the money exchange is killing thier US sales. Here is an article they wrote promoting Li-ON in the proper situation. OF course this does not change the facts in my above article.

Lithium Ion Does Not Have to be Dangereous
http://www.paguk.com/notdangerous.htm

PAG makes a great and durable case with their L95 and has our preference in design technology. Anton Bauer also has a great and durable case and their design technology is good. Both utilize a very thick case which is important with any battery cell, especially a volitle Li-ON cell. Li-ON and other chemical batteries we have opened from many other manufacturers are designed wiith very thin plastice cases and no barrier between the cell and the outside world except their paper thin plastic case.

Because we are not only a battery pack assembler for any industry but also recell or rebuild battery packs from many manufacturers and have services like battery charger repair we see the good, the bad, and the ugly. We see the product at the end of its life and see the quality of cells or components used as well as the quality of the manufacturers final assembly process. Not to mention the disasters from third world companies and amateur rebuilders.

We always welcome the opportunity to be the final assembler for anyone thus keeping jobs in the Appllachias of the United States of America.

You get what you pay for.

I hope I have not bored you too much. See you at NAB2007 Booth # C9621

The more you are accurately informed the more you will appreciate rathboneenergy.com services, products, and 17 consistent years of operation.

Sincerely,

Ron L. Rathbone
President
Rathbone Energy, Inc.
2595 E Hwy 25/70
Building # 2
Dandridge, TN 37725
865-484-1783
800-223-1775
sales@rathboneenergy.com
www.rathboneenergy.com


I am going to buy IDX Endura 10S bateries and compact cheap SWIT charger. for the road it must be real saver. but i am not good in electronics. please any comment if I can use long and safe to charge IDX Endura bateries with the SWIT charger?

Price is in big difference with original Endura chargers. I am concider to buy one of these chargers:

SWIT SC- 302S/A
http://www.videokit....c...&pid=79.htm

SWIT S-3010S
http://www.digibroad...s/1/S-3010S.htm

thank you

andrew


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#6 JobScholtze

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:14 PM

IMO

I have used the AB Hytorn 50 batterys for the last couple of years and to be honest, i didnt like them. After 2 years the lost there charg after 24 hours. I payd a lot of cash for them, bought the AB chargers and even bought new hytron 50 batts. Becose i use lots of HD and XD Cameras, i needed a bunch of them. XD Loves the juice, so did my extras and ringlight. 10 of them nearly brought me true the day. I didnt want the idx becose i found them to light in weigth. So i started to try out those cheap chinese things. Not 50 w like the ab but 160w.
Phylion

Well, after 2 years the still are great. Ones charged the keep charged for weeks. There cheap, nice in weight, and easy in use. Even if the die in the next year, i dont care. Get a few new ones and i am set for years again.

Now, i am not a battery expert, and i am sure there are several reasons the quality is poor, but fact is the work. Every freaking day the work. I only use 6 at the most for a day and use 2 others for lcd, monitor or whatever i want to power up. No chip settings, no software crap, just chagers who charg the batterys when needed.

My 2 cents
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#7 Ron L Rathbone

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 11:13 PM

:) Hello,

Yes, the H50 is a delicate batery. We have information on precautions of the H50 on our web site.

Basically, the H50 is a 50WH Ni-MH battery pack weighing 2.8 pounds or thereabout.

The cell, a Sanyo HR-4/3FAU4000 (our recell is a Sanyo HR-4/3FAU4500) is a Foam Pasted technology good for +/- 500 charge discharge cycles. Then thing about Sanyo, Saft, and Panasonic manufacturing requirements for the high end product is the slop or curve of the cell capacity, the charge discharge cycles, and internal resistance. The same for their High end Ni-CD and Li-ON cells.

That is, 50 watts, or our 67WH recell on a steady discharge with little to no drop in the slope until almost the end of the charge cycle.

Li-ON is another animal. Even when comparing 50WH to 160WH the performace slope of the high end cell is steady while the Chinese cell will show a constant degradation of its performance slope. Being at 160WH it is simply not noticed as obviously when matched against a 50WH pack. More information can be found within our article on the negatives of Lithium Ion.

Of course there are many other issues with the cell quality of Chinese cells but 18 years of experience is too much for a forum. :)

More can be found at www.rathboneenergy.com

Guys, have a good night. I am going to back to work for a while longer.

Ron L. Rathbone
Rathbone Energy
www.rathboneenergy.com


IMO

I have used the AB Hytorn 50 batterys for the last couple of years and to be honest, i didnt like them. After 2 years the lost there charg after 24 hours. I payd a lot of cash for them, bought the AB chargers and even bought new hytron 50 batts. Becose i use lots of HD and XD Cameras, i needed a bunch of them. XD Loves the juice, so did my extras and ringlight. 10 of them nearly brought me true the day. I didnt want the idx becose i found them to light in weigth. So i started to try out those cheap chinese things. Not 50 w like the ab but 160w.
Phylion

Well, after 2 years the still are great. Ones charged the keep charged for weeks. There cheap, nice in weight, and easy in use. Even if the die in the next year, i dont care. Get a few new ones and i am set for years again.

Now, i am not a battery expert, and i am sure there are several reasons the quality is poor, but fact is the work. Every freaking day the work. I only use 6 at the most for a day and use 2 others for lcd, monitor or whatever i want to power up. No chip settings, no software crap, just chagers who charg the batterys when needed.

My 2 cents


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