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Basson... is it serious?


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#1 Andrew Boch

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 05:37 PM

Hi,

I am owner of Glidecam Smoothsooter and 4000 pro sled. Now got possibility to upgrade my rig to something more serious. It could be around $5000 for whole set. I need it to care my HVX200 and sometimes with Redrock M2 adapter. What would you recommend me to go with?

I found Basson Blackbee (http://www.bassonste...sp?oynprodid=22) is in the range of the money. Is it good system to go with? I read some post that all these new companies, which copying original Tiffen products are not so experienced in constructing their equipment and all their children has many problems to operate it.

Some details, i noticed just by eye, i do not like, but maybe it is just my inexperience:

- the arm is jut out to the side too much and can be difficult to go through doors or tight corridor.
- post is too long and for me it looks that camera will be too high.
- bottom part do not look good for dinamic ballance. Camera with adapter and matte box is way much longer.
...

So would you recommend me to jump on it or maybe I have to upgrade to something from original Tiffen like SK2? I want to spent money properly and not lamment in the future. Is Basson Blackbee much better then my Smooth Sooter with 4000pro or just little better? I would not spent double money for something just *little* better.

Please any ideas and suggestions are welcome,
Andrew
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#2 Erwin Landau

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:10 PM

Hi Andrew,

Please check the forum, there are extensive discussions on that piece of sh... I mean that manufacturer:

http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=2674

http://www.steadicam...p?showtopic=167


You should seriously look into the Steadicam Flyer.

http://www.steadicam...videoFlyer.html

Again there are extensive information about the Flyer on this forum, check the newbie and the sled section.


Good Luck,

Erwin
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#3 Erik Brul

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 06:20 PM

Hi Andrew,

Many here would say.., search the archives !
But they also would warn you, don't go the Basson way. It is flushing your money into the toilet. Some are ok, but only when the owner did some heavy modify at the Rig. The Basson is not better then your Smooth Shooter, it can only lift more weight.

There are several brands out there which are as good as the Tiffen Steadicam (some would say maybe even better :rolleyes: )

But brands as MK-V, PRO, Glidecam are some great examples.
For you but still some above the 5000 dollars you mentioned, the Steadicam Flyer or the Glidecam V25 are nice upgrades. The Flyer is at the moment arround 6500 dollars at Tiffen :

http://www.steadicam...steadiUsed.html

You can sell your Glidecam, but if I was you.. i would keep that Rig as a nice litle backup unit.

Best, Erik
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#4 Andrew Boch

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:26 PM

Erwin and Erik, thank you very much for your warnings, suggestions and usefull links... wow, i just came back from reading all that threads. I would like to say that first I have to digest all the information, but for now i have my doubts to buy Basson even it is only solution for my actual pocket size. I think i have to talk to our sponsor about bigger investment...

From the first look i like v-25 more but also i respect experience of tiffen and need more time to decide.

BTW german dealer of the GC (closest to my location) has this picture of V25 and demonstrator holding it like this:

Posted Image

is it proper way to handle post? i am sorry but i did not went through any workshop and have my doubts about almost everything I do to operate my smoothshooter.

thank you once again for your valuable help,
Andrei
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#5 Matt Burton

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:58 AM

is it proper way to handle post?


This is sloppy advertising from Glidecam and "NO" you should not operate like this !
The v25 seems like a greate system and you should not be put off by shoddy marketing.
The obviouse problem being the operator using a death grip on the post and gimble thus rendering the arm useless. both hands sould only have finger tip contact with both the gimble and post but more on this when you take the workshop !
-matt
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#6 Andrew Boch

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 12:17 PM

Thank you Matt. It is my dream to go through any good steadicam workshop and even more i just back from searching for any upcoming one here in Europe. But for now, it remains dream because of price for it - 2.500 euros fee plus 2000 euros for accommodation... :blink: it means 4500 euros ($5900) without tickets... for independent filmmaker as me it is too much money.

I am talking about workshop by G.Brown and J.Holway in Switzerland, February 4-9, 2007
http://www.sometimes.ch/workshop.html

Andrei
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#7 Matt Burton

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:21 PM

The workshop you are talking about is the very top end of workshops even a seasoned pro would attend. All you need is a basic introduction to steadicam workshop of whitch theire are many in europe and from as little as £500 for a 3day course that will teach you everthing you need to know and more.
Also you might contact a local steadicam pro in your area who would i'm sure give you a one day course for a reasonable price !
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#8 Andrew Boch

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:53 PM

sure, i will do my best to look for some steadicam operator here in my area (Czech, Prague) . i hope he will be some kind of experienced one.

thank you Matt,
Andrei
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#9 Erik Brul

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 02:50 PM

sure, i will do my best to look for some steadicam operator here in my area (Czech, Prague) . i hope he will be some kind of experienced one.

thank you Matt,
Andrei


Just as Matt mentioned, there are some nice introduction workshops in Europe, for example
3 day courses :

Tiffen Europe (location UK, price approx 800 euros i think ex travel & accomodation)
Sachtler Germany (location Munchen, price approx 590 euros ex travel & accomodation)
Glidecam Netherlands (location ?, price approx 500 euros ex travel & accomodation)

2 day courses :
In US:
Peter Abraham, Steadicamworkshops.. One RIG only, the Steadicam Flyer.
(location several US, New York etc.. price approx 500 dollars ex travel & accomodation)

Tip : check the websites from all brands, they all have advertismentes about workshops +

http://www.steadicam-ops.com

Best, Erik
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#10 Andrew Boch

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:04 PM

Erik, thank you for your kind research.

Just sent email to the Sachtler. They do not have enough information on the site.

Also i was atracted by the view and price of their Artemis DV Pro... is it good? Nobody recomended it to me in this thread. Price is almost the same as for Glidecam V25.

Glidecam has their workshop in April and that time i will be in South India shooting, so unfortunately best price option did not fall to the proper time for me.

thank you again
Andrei
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#11 Erik Brul

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:27 PM

Erik, thank you for your kind research.

Just sent email to the Sachtler. They do not have enough information on the site.

Also i was atracted by the view and price of their Artemis DV Pro... is it good? Nobody recomended it to me in this thread. Price is almost the same as for Glidecam V25.

Glidecam has their workshop in April and that time i will be in South India shooting, so unfortunately best price option did not fall to the proper time for me.

thank you again
Andrei


No problem Andrew, nothing better to do at the moment. :P
I have tried the Artemis DV Pro.., it is a nice Rig, capable of almost the same weights as the Glidecam V25.
It is also weird to see here a backmounted vest. I'm only used to use a frontmounted, so it was a strange feeling when I operated it for about 15 minutes. The arm/vest connection is not quit ok, it is to far at the back but I did not tried this by myself, had a little help from a Sachtler guy.

The arm is stiff, I think it would work smoother when a heavy load is used. I flown the Rig with the JVC GY-HD100 + some extra weights, mattebox and remote focus. Also you need a T-Wrench to adjust the arm.

The Sled is very very nice, for me as owner of the Flyer, this kind of Sled should be standard within the Flyer package :blink: Is has some extra dynamic balance adjustments comparing to the Flyer Sled, HD/SDI possible and 24 Volt option for just a little extra.

Put maybe the following combination is nice ?

- Glidecam V25 Vest
- Glidecam V25 Arm
- Artemis DV Pro Sled

Just a idea..

Best, Erik
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#12 Lukas Franz

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:48 PM

Hi Andrew, hi guys.

Well, I've got a V-25 and fly the HVX200 with a M2 very often. It works pretty well. I definitely can recommend the workshop in the Netherlands with Job Scholtze, which I also attented last December.

I know the Sachtler Artemis as well, but for me the V-25 is actually much more comfortable to fly. Don't ask me why!

The Basson stuff looks pretty "selfmade" to me....whatever.

So, I hope to see some of you guys at the workshop in Locarno next month. I'm shure, it will be a great week with Garrett and Jerry.

Greets from Switzerland.
Lukas
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#13 mark morgan

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 08:44 PM

hey andrew,you should read some threads on the back mount vest as well,dynamic balance is your friend and i know that sachtler makes a super comfortable front mount vest
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#14 Matt Burton

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 10:47 AM

Well, I've got a V-25 and fly the HVX200 with a M2 very often. It works pretty well. I definitely can recommend the workshop in the Netherlands with Job Scholtze, which I also attented last December.


Does the HVX & M2 need extra weight to fly on the V25 ? (just curious)
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#15 Lukas Franz

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 03:10 PM

Hi Matt,

yes, I use extra weight for HVX200/M2 combo on the V-25. It definitely depends on what kind of lenses you use. The M2 adapter you could have with different lens mounts. So if you use the PL mount with a heavy HS lens, then you've got enough weight. The cam will be just a little front heavy then, so that's another problem. Anyway I always use some extra weight with lighter cams, because I can adjust the arm better.

Greets, Lukas
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