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PRO versus G70


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#1 JobScholtze

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 04:19 PM

I am using the G50 for the last 6 month and am loving it. But i get more and more at the max of what the arm can handle. Hd with primes, ringlight, 3 batts transmitter, 2 motors etc etc. This week the arm was at max and it did work out.

I am thinking to change the arm over to the G70 or Pro arm. There about in the same price range, and i am a bit confused to what arm to switch. I want to be able to fly lighter stuff as the heavy stuff. Is there anyone how used them both?

Job
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#2 thomas-english

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:31 PM

Well I am seriously pondering the same question Job, all I have worked out so far is,

Pro arm carries a lifetime guarantee, g70 .. Tiffen folk are incredibly non commital about any kind of long term warrantee, I am sure you get a year but for a newly designed arm to me thats not good enough.

g70 adjusts on the fly, pro does not

Both lovely lovely arms, nobody has yet tested the g70 on the AR which is a shame seeing as that is a big part of the future. Pro arm has been extensively used with the AR and with steel socket block it s fine!

I just wished the g70 looked a little beefier, I am presently swaying towards the PRO. The g70 feels beautiful though!

Basically I don t know... any other thoughts
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#3 WillArnot

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 09:14 PM

I have alot of experience w/ the PRO arm, and very little but some w/ the G70. I cannot say enough good things about the PRO arm.

Yes, a tough choice. They say a greater boom range w/ the G70 but I did not notice this. Performance is close to neck and neck.

Job you mentioned being able to do light work. This is where the PRO arm is better. You can set for a lighter load by removing 2 spring canisters, and just flying 2. This process takes about 15 seconds to remove 2 spring canisters. And now the arm is even lighter than the G70.

If carrying a heavy load the G70 will save a couple of pounds on your body as it is a lighter arm.

Yes the G70 can be set to very light tension, but you are standing there forever twisting and twisting and twisting that little knob.

The G70 does come apart quite easily I believe, but the PRO arm is extremely easy to take apart and clean. Once the spring canisters are removed you can literally run water over the entire arm chasis to clean it.

And you can't underestimate the genius of the spring canisters. Don't skimp on the canisters, buy 4 blue and 4 black. If a spring fails, highly unlikely, you can easily manage with the rest of the others. Great for maintenance (hardly ever, if at all) since with 4 Blue and 4 Black you pretty much have 2 full sets.

And the obvious detail that there are no exposed moving parts. Everything is sealed... the bearings and the canisters, so there is exceptionally greater protection from the elements.

To me the modularity and the maintenance win the race hands down.

And you mentioned the warranty. Can't beat a lifetime warranty. Is the G70 extruded or not? The PRO chasis is not extruded and is consequently infinitely stronger and therefore much more expensive to make. But this is why PRO can afford to grant a lifetime warranty. You can make at least 2 or 3 arms that are extruded as you can for one that is not. But the extruded will potentially fail, if not be weaker and prone to flexing.

But maybe the G70 is an entirely different construction as I seem to remember some kind of honyecomb structure in the bones. Excellent strength to weight ratio. But made out of what and how? And therefore why not warranty it if it is made well?

my .02.

Will
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#4 David George Ellis

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 09:44 PM

Damn Job,

Just looking for a civil war, eh? Both arms have stretched the limits of technology using individual approaches. Both have amazing ranges in boom and weight capacity. Either unit would be a viable armament at your disposal. I flew each for the first time, on the same day. Both made my Master feel like my Model III when I first got my Master.

Each arm has an argument to be made. They certainly seem like two of the best. Each has performance advantages over the other, albeit almost negligible. I remember the logic of that day. My buddy was kind enough to let me try his arm to compare and I gotta say, if there was a gun to my head to choose that day, I might've died.

As time went on and emotions set aside, I made a decision based on my personal criteria. Customer service/loyalty and field serviceability/self maintenance:

-Though I have never tested Tiffen's service, I know of GPI's. George, Ashley, Jack and Adam are unrivaled.

-If my PRO I sled were to fall into the ocean, I'd replace it with a PRO-based sled, so that answers loyalty.

-As for the field, the PRO is considered to be more rugged and can be stripped down rather easliy if necessary on set. Not sure how much so with the G70.

The PRO arm is time-tested, whereas the G70 is still new. 5 maybe 10 years from now, it might be a different story. I feel there isn't enough anecdotal evidence for the G70 to get over the PRO for now. Being a speculator, I know you need to invest in something with great long-standing fundamentals as well. So my choice today would be the PRO.

Garrett, Jerry, Frank and co. are all outstanding people with outstanding track records, but the G70 for me still needs some time to really prove its dominance in the field as the arm of choice. Believe me, I hope it is received and does well. Just so much passion all around in the belief of their product.

Good luck to us all.
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#5 Charles Papert

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:46 PM

g70 adjusts on the fly, pro does not


Just to clarify--assuming that "one the fly" means under load, the PRO arm certainly can be adjusted thusly, it just requires a hex wrench while the G70 has the knob.

The 2nd AC on my current show is into the groove of rebalancing my rig after lens changes, which is a treat for me but I always forget that the arm also requires touching up between certain lenses, so I often end up tweaking the range on the way to one from the dock. No doubt I'd prefer a knob to having to wrangle the wrench but it's not much of a hardship.
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#6 JobScholtze

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 04:29 PM

Nothing new here yet, but keep them coming. I wish we had some field reports from the G70. Still a tuff desicion to make though
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#7 Guido Lux

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 02:42 PM

Hi Job,hi Will,...hi guys!

I've received my G70 about four weeks ago and I've been using it since (with my Nexus).
I didn't get the chance to try it with my AR but that'll come in the next couple of weeks!

First of all: I love the G70! I love the weight reduction and the no-tools adjusting of weight and "ride".
I've only flown the PRO a couple of times and I really liked it.To me it felt almost short though.
The boomrange of the G70 is incredible!!!Can't wait to use it with the AR!

Service wise, we've all known Tiffen...but I seriously hope and believe that they changed!!
We'll see.
Then there is the price: $ 4600 is something to think about!! I would say its a different pricerange,don't you?!
So right now (for me here in germany) if I had to make the choince again...I'd probably go for the G70 again!

Ask me again in 2 years and I might have changed my opinion.

I'll let you know more when I've flown the AR with the G70.


Guido


PS: Job, I had Howard make me a batterymount like yours....customized it a little!!I'll send you a pic when its ready!
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#8 JobScholtze

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 02:57 PM

Cool, lets see it.
And thanks for the G70 story. If i go for the G70 i need to sell the G50 first.

Job
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#9 Dan Coplan

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 04:32 PM

If i go for the G70 i need to sell the G50 first.


Probably a long shot, but ask Tiffen if they'll take the G50 as a partial trade-in for the G70.

Dan
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#10 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:45 PM

If i go for the G70 i need to sell the G50 first.

Probably a long shot, but ask Tiffen if they'll take the G50 as a partial trade-in for the G70.
Dan


It may not be such a long-shot; I recently did a trade with Tiffen from a Flyer to the Clipper 2 w/G50 / Ultra vest and feel like I was treated very fairly in the deal.
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#11 thomas-english

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 09:27 PM

$4600 for the g70? where did you get that price from? I thought it was 3 times that
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#12 mark morgan

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 02:09 AM

i think that is the difference you save between the 2 arms
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#13 Jerry Holway

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 02:28 PM

I'd like to address (first) the nonsense about extruded vs. machined, 7075 vs. 6061, that have been flying around the forum and elsewhere.

The extuded, "honey-combed, double arch" bones of the G-50 and G-70 arms are more than adequately strong for the task it is designed for. It's the both the design and the materials that make it strong, and also, consequently, light (10.8 lbs with the titanium socket, a bit more with the steel), which was one of the design objectives in making the arm.

FEA tests prove it (with a healthy safety factor), and the arms are stronger than the IIIA and Master/Ultra arms, with less twist. The PRO arm uses a different design and materials (7075 and machined), and is also very, very strong. I am not knocking the PRO arm or its design at all, just the argument that somehow the extruded nature of the G-70 arm is inadequate, subject to eventual failure, etc. Complete nonsense, and I wonder where it all got started.

It would be like saying that the .625 arm posts of the PRO are inadequate because the .740 arm posts of the Ultra are stronger.... both are designed just fine thank you.

Now to stuff that is not pure nonsense:

The G-70 arm carries the specified weight just fine (up to 70 pounds... at least), and carries it more isoelastically and more smoothly than any other arm out there. And more consistently isoelatically regardless of the weight carried. How do I know this? Not by assumption, but by testing.

As part of the testing of the G-70 arm, we put it side by side with several arms by several manufacturers, including the PRO, and the G-70's booming was clearly and noticably smoother throughout its range. The G-70's boom range is 32 inches and a hair, vs about 28 for the PRO. This was measured hardmounted, BTW. How much this matters to you is another question, but I'm always looking for that extra inch, especially in low mode. My opinion: more and smoother with less effort is better. Does this outweigh other factors? That's up to the individual...

The "little" toolfree adjustment knobs for lift allow me to quickly change the lift (even on the way to number one) as we change lenses, filters, or I decide that I'd like it to float a bit higher or lower for the shot. This ability to tweak on the fly is something introduced in 1995 with the Master Series arm, and once you have it, you never want to give it up. And this is new with the G series arms: there's no penalty in one end of the boom range getting much harder or or way too easy to reach because of the offset in lift.

A total aside: I've been playing with the Ultra2 at trade shows, trying out the new go-to remote and stage. It's killing me on sets with my "old Ultra" that I don't have this feature... on my last job I wanted to have precise balance settings for each part of the shot. I did just fine without it... but boy do I want that feature now that I have played with it and know it's available.

The Geometry mechanics and ride control is unique to the G series arms. Undeniable benefits: smoother lift, greater boom range (without longer bones) and adjustable/tunable so the user can decide how the arm feels and behaves for each shot. Another feature regarding the booming: both ends of the boom range have very soft stops. The last bits power the arms up or down, so there's no sudden clunks as you hit the bumpers.

Not mentioned in previous posts: the unique kickback link at the arm interconnect reduces most of the knocking associated with running moves, as well as gives greater freedom of movement of the arm (gets the arm further out of the way as you pull the rig towards the socket block side).

I suspect it is faster to go from 60 pounds to 20 pounds with the PRO (removing some canisters), but it is certainly slower going to from 20 to 22 or 23, then to 35 or 42 and who's weighing anyway on set? (which canisters set to what now??). As most of our work involves changing lenses, adding filters, flags, ultrasonic stuff, little lamps, I think the G-70 is 99% of the time faster and more precise (because it's effortless) on set.

As to modularity and maintence, both came apart quite easily, the PRO somewhat quicker. As someone who has only sent in one arm once in 24 years to be cleaned (I've had 3 arms now) I do not find this much of a disadvantage or concern. I do tend to cover my arms in wet or dusty and sandy conditions.

The G-70 also has a tool-free arm post changeover system and adjustable drag (free to fixed). Designed differently, but I think functionally similar to that of the PRO (check me on this...)

Jerry
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#14 JobScholtze

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 05:47 PM

Thanks Jerry
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#15 JobScholtze

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:44 PM

With the current dollar rates, the pro and the G70 are almost in the same pricerange. I am still not sure here. Cant trade the g50 arm in with tiffen, At least not for the price i want/need for it.

:blink:
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