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Klassen cloned in China!


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#1 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 10:10 AM

Check out the whole site too! :blink:

Movcam

-Rick.
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#2 paul magee

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 11:01 AM

This is the reason all digital cameras should be banned at trade shows.
I don't think there is an original idea on the whole web site.
On the bright side the demo's of the gear
are a real treat if you love to knock bad technique.


Paul Magee
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#3 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 11:16 AM

I wouldn't use the word 'clone', I think 'copy' is a much more accurate description ;)
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#4 Charles King

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 11:56 AM

Well guys, sure it's bound to happen. Nothing strange about it. after all. you might as well say that everything that is not a steadicam product is a copy. Would you like me to list all of them? ;) Regardless, it's the quality of any high end rigs that separates it from the other companies. We all know that. So there can be a hundred more but if the quality is lacking then there is no need for the high end market to worry. :)

That's why it's a good idea for people to try all and then make their own assessment. It's already been said many times.
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#5 Anders Holck Petersen

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:51 PM

More importantly they have a G50/Flyer arm clone as well
Posted Image

Hmm....No ride control but the geometry control seems to be there, and the max load is limited to 20 pounds.
Tiffen might want to get their legal department in gear....isn't that iso-elastic master arm patent still valid?
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#6 JensSchroeder

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 05:19 PM

[if the quality is lacking then there is no need for the high end market to worry. :) ]

I totally agree with Charles. As for the Klassen products, the quality is amazing and when it comes to service I just can say awesome. So you always better think twice if you want to go for the cheap.

Cheers,

Jens B)
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#7 paul magee

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 05:38 PM

Well guys, sure it's bound to happen. Nothing strange about it. after all. you might as well say that everything that is not a steadicam product is a copy. Would you like me to list all of them? ;)

Hey Charles,
The real companies don't copy- they're part of the evolution of the rigs that we use. If you look at the major players - PRO, XCS, Tiffen, MKV, SilverRig, Barbel and maybe even Sachtler all come out it with something new to offer to improve the craft. It's through the competition between these companies that the rigs evolve.
Dynamic balance, motorized top stage, modular systems, Super post, 2 inch post, advanced power management, improved top stages, battery racks, tilting stages, all come from looking at the original and coming up with a better idea, spending the time and money to develop design and then build the tools that we use.
There's nothing on this website that's new or original. The Vest is a direct copy of Walter's improvements on Daniel's original design. The K section of their sled strikes me as a direct copy of the new Tiffen Ultra2.
The arms look very familar. Maybe these units will perform well but these guys are not advancing the
the tools we use and are actually discouraging innovation by removing the incentive for development.

Paul Magee
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#8 Matt Burton

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 06:25 PM

whats wrong with this picture Posted Image
Still 10 out of 10 for effort !
:ph34r:
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#9 Charles King

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 06:48 PM

Well guys, sure it's bound to happen. Nothing strange about it. after all. you might as well say that everything that is not a steadicam product is a copy. Would you like me to list all of them? ;)

Hey Charles,
The real companies don't copy- they're part of the evolution of the rigs that we use. If you look at the major players - PRO, XCS, Tiffen, MKV, SilverRig, Barbel and maybe even Sachtler all come out it with something new to offer to improve the craft. It's through the competition between these companies that the rigs evolve.
Dynamic balance, motorized top stage, modular systems, Super post, 2 inch post, advanced power management, improved top stages, battery racks, tilting stages, all come from looking at the original and coming up with a better idea, spending the time and money to develop design and then build the tools that we use.
There's nothing on this website that's new or original. The Vest is a direct copy of Walter's improvements on Daniel's original design. The K section of their sled strikes me as a direct copy of the new Tiffen Ultra2.
The arms look very familar. Maybe these units will perform well but these guys are not advancing the
the tools we use and are actually discouraging innovation by removing the incentive for development.

Paul Magee


Paul I was not referring to your point you have just stated but merely to the many stabilizer companies that have been getting into the stabilizer business. I know this particular company is not that well innovative because I too, noticed that they have borrowed many concepts from every stabilizer comapny on the planet. :) So I agree, but just hope you don't misunderstand me or the point I was making. ;)
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#10 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 08:32 PM

Is this really a surprise to anyone?
What don't the Chinese pirate and copy...it's speaks volumes about
their originality and ability for forethought.
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#11 Afton Grant

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 08:46 PM

Very recently I was visiting with Walter at his shop in Toronto. Believe it or not, with rising material costs and employing excellent, loyal, LOCAL labor at his workshop, his profits on his vests aren't great. He humbly commented that he knew it wouldn't be long before some Asian company begins to do what he does for a fraction of the cost.

I responded very simply. They might be able to reproduce your products. They might even come pretty close to his quality. They'll definitely be able to sell for less. But they will NEVER come close to Walter's level of ingenuity, open communication and exchange of ideas, and all around customer service. That is something our friendly neighborhood manufacturers (Klassen, XCS, GPI, etc) offer day after day. Many of whom are no more than a car ride away. And THAT is value for which I am willing to pay.

Clone companies such as these will find their place, and they will find their customer base. But they will always be at least one step behind.

Best,
Afton
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#12 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 11:40 PM

Well said Afton. Besides, can you put a price on art work? My Klassen vest is a piece of art - the quality of the leather work, carbon fiber, and general construction boggle the mind.

These people are creeps - not an original thought. The damn adjustment knobs even look the same along with the little hook strap.
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#13 fabrizio catanzano

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 05:14 AM

yesterday i talked with rich lewis about about the w/k chinese copy .. and i now see this interesting topic ..
we should speak about chinese in this biz
maybe 1 day they will copy the a/r sled. the pro gpi arm, who knows ?
as howard of mk-v says .... the quality makes the difference !!
but we can't ingore the chinese market, they r growing up ... maybe 1 day they will do a good system !!
it was like the japaneses did after the IIĀ° mondial war, they have copied everything ... today they r leaders in the cameras (sony, panasonic, etc) market !!
we'll see what will happen !!
regards,
fabrizio catanzano from italy.
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#14 Charles King

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 05:59 AM

That's what I tried to point out in my previous post. Key word here guys 'Quality'. I personally say, let them come but at the end of the day, it's quality and performance that out weighs the masses. Now you all must agree on that. :) The lower end market can probably gain from these companies but again; when the buyers realize the compromise of some of these products they will slowly turn to wards Quality and Performance. So don't sweat it guys. Life goes on and like Digimage said, The Chinese are coming whether you like it or not :) :)

Then again, the Chinese have always survived such clashes as in due time they will out outweigh the cost that it takes to make these devices. It's been like this for many many years. So don't rule them out...
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#15 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:53 AM

fabrizio catanzano from italy.


Please use your real name as your screenname. It's one of the rules we have here.
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