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Thanks for the help!


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#1 Dave Williams

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 08:56 PM

My first big triax truck shoot went off without a hitch thanks to Alan Mehlbrech and Peter Abraham.

I was hired to be part of a 6-camera shoot: Cassandra Wilson at World Cafe Live in Philadelphia. They had me fly an Ike 388P with a wide angle lens. It was a bit on the heavy side for my Flyer but I got it going.

The directors loved the work and asked for my card so I guess that's a good sign.

Thanks guys for the advice and the accessories!!! You rock!

Dave Williams
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#2 Erik Brul

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 12:55 AM

My first big triax truck shoot went off without a hitch thanks to Alan Mehlbrech and Peter Abraham.

I was hired to be part of a 6-camera shoot: Cassandra Wilson at World Cafe Live in Philadelphia. They had me fly an Ike 388P with a wide angle lens. It was a bit on the heavy side for my Flyer but I got it going.

The directors loved the work and asked for my card so I guess that's a good sign.

Thanks guys for the advice and the accessories!!! You rock!

Dave Williams


Congrats Dave.. once again proof that the Flyer is useable with triax shoot situations..
This give me hope :)

Best, Erik
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#3 PeterAbraham

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:12 AM

Hey Dave !

Glad it went well for you. The evening you did thag gig I had a conversation with my director about fim shooters v.s. live t.v. shooters, what to expect, what one does when one first steps across the lines into a different arena of camera operating.

Undoubtedly the Flyer is a good tool for Tri Ax jobs, given the camera weight + camera mount plate weight + lens weight obey the Golden Poundage Rule. ( 15 pounds, dat's it ! ). As is the case with any rig, very special care is taken to rig the cable as it departs the sled to minimize drag and sway on the rig, and to strain relief it securely before it departs your body.

I'd love to see the DVD of what you did. Right on !

Best

Peter Abraham
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#4 Dave Williams

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 12:01 PM

I'd love to see the DVD of what you did. Right on !


Look for Cassandra Wilson on Comcast's Video On Demand. I'm not sure when it will air. They did a live switch to tape but I understand they iso'd each camera to tape and will be doing post.
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#5 Rick Seefreid

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:12 AM

Do you know what weight you were actually operating at?

I'm doing much the same thing in a few weeks witha flyer and I'm right up around 15lbs. I'm a little nervous it may be 1 or 2lbs over. (sony 570 or a dxc35 with wide angel lenses)

Also when we say "15lbs", are we including sled batteries and monitor, or are we talking only about camera/batts/transmitters etc. ABOVE the gimbal?

Rick
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#6 PeterAbraham

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:34 AM

When discussing the Steadicam Flyer, the 5 to 15 pounds range addresses the mass bolted to the Flyer Plate. Nothing about the sled weight is a part of this calculation.

There is little if any margin for over-weighting a Flyer. I met a fellow who flew a 22 pound camera on his Flyer. It did not do so well. It is true enough that you could put 22 pounds on, and two huge Anton Bauer bricks, or stack up IDX 10S batteries so that you could do the balancing act top-to-bottom that we all do to build and balance our rigs.

The entire machine is not designed to support this. In no particular order of events, you will over-stress the gimbal bearing races, the arm bearings and arm dogbones and the vest spar.

One needs to adhere to those weight guidelines pretty darned closely. Can you fly a camera that you've stripped of battery, eyepiece and mike and comes in at 15 pounds 9 ounces? Sure. Will it fly a bit low perhaps, with a very very slow drop rate? Yeah. Will it wreck your rig in the first hour? Absolutely not- that's not what I mean by the statements above.

The rig flies perfectly, when operated within the tolerances it is built to measure up to. Like any rig, made by any manufacturer. ( lest we get into a land war over whose brand rig can handle excessive masses opposed to someone else's brand rig ).

For those folks using a larger camera that comes in very close to and just a bit over 15 pounds, there are folks who have ditched the factory mount plate made by the camera manufacturer. ( You know the Ikegami or Sony or Hitachi bridging plate that locks into and releases from the feet under the camera body ). They are usually quite heavy, and given a bit of machining folks have made good solid bridging plates that weigh a lot less than stock plates, and keep the "camera mass" at or under 15 pounds.

My two cents.

Peter Abraham
New York
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#7 Dave Williams

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:39 AM

Yeah - what he said. No I don't know what the total weight of the cam was, but I was bottoming out for sure. (War's "Low Rider" was playing in my head.)
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#8 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 01:31 PM

Rick,
Try and steer for the DXC-D35 if possible. It's lighter than the DSR-570 (assuming the D35 has a triax back rather than a DVCAM back on it) I've operated with both cameras, on the rig and handheld, the D35 is definately lighter, should be enough to save worrying about bottoming out.

Cheers
JT
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#9 Rick Seefreid

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:27 PM

Thanks so much guys, I appreciate the feedback!

I pulled up Sony's spec sheet on the 570 and the 35 and it indicates in NTSC config that the 570 is 14.10lbs and the 35 is 16.5lbs. This is with lens, viewfinder, batt, and tape.

http://bssc.sel.sony.....m v10749g.pdf

The comment about the mounting plate is valid. I find that sony's quick release is 2lbs!

Does anyone know where I could get ahold of a custom plate? A search for mounting plates only brings up the Sony one. :(
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#10 Kareem La Vaullee

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:41 PM

Does anyone know where I could get ahold of a custom plate? A search for mounting plates only brings up the Sony one. :(

You didn't mean "A search in the Forum..." ?

There is at least one thread about that : A Better Video Camera Mount plate ?

K.
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#11 Charles Papert

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 06:20 AM

I have a Sony plate that I had a machinist mill out for me about 13 years ago--it looks like it just survived a shotgun blast (but barely). Unfortunately all those little holes only added up to a few ounces of weight savings, so I don't recommend going that route. The newer plates are a bit lighter anyway.
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#12 Jaron Berman

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 10:44 AM

Any chance of tiffen making a longer dovetail plate that could screw directly into the camera?
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#13 Rick Seefreid

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 04:41 AM

It takes SO much effort to search the forum. It's much easier to ask you Kareem. :P

Thanks. I like that Baer-Bel and chris fawcett's custom plates. I'll check on the BB.

Rick
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#14 PeterAbraham

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:18 PM

Any chance of tiffen making a longer dovetail plate that could screw directly into the camera?


It isn't plate length, it's bottom-of-camera interface. For the various different makers out there, Tiffen would have to make a matching dovetail plate precision-fit to each camera. We have the Universal dovetail plate- as do the other players in the field. If one owns a camera, one could remove the triangular dove-tail feet that lock into the mating touch-and-go camera plate, and instead machine a very small and solid interface that could be screwed in from below, underneath a Steadicam plate.

Hmm. Uh. That's a cool thought. :D
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#15 Rick Seefreid

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:20 AM

An update for those who work with the flyer:


I stripped the 570 of it's viewfinder and anton v-mount adapter and of course powered it via the rig. I flew a Dionic and a IDX-10 together on the battery side. On the monitor side a small audio receiver, sun shade and approximately one additional pound of ballast.(probably less than a pound)

The result is that it flew extremely well!

I have no idea what the final weight was, but it did not feel anywhere near "bottoming out". I was able to dynamically balance it as much as you can dynamically balance a flyer, which was pretty close. At one point when I cranked the arm screws in to help me hold a craned-up lock off I discovered about 3 more revolutions left in the screws.

The flyer is "the little rig that could." LOL.

However, sooner or later I'm going to snap the bolt/threads on the battery mount arm. It's pretty obvious it's not designed to handle that much battery weight. Trying to get the arm to stay where I put it requires over torque and even then one tap of the leg or hustle across the stage and it slips out of balance.

I worked for ten days doing musical stage shows with lots of hustling around so the rig was not treated gently. This is the most I have asked of the flyer and it surprised me by not just squeaking by, but by flying perfectly. How long it could withstand this is questionable however...it's time for me to step up to a bigger rig. :)
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