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weighed out and maybe ready to buy!


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#1 Kyle Fasanella

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 03:15 PM

Hey guys I have been going back and forth between the v25 and flyer. I really would prefer to use the flyer for its high recomendation but I just weighed my camera with redrock 35mm adapter with rail system and im at a minimum of 12LB 9.80 OZ to- 13.40 based on the lense I use. Also in the future I plan to add a flow focus, matte box and wireless transmitter which may even require longer rails. Also im not sure the diffrence from camera weight and whats included vs arm carring weight and what can not be included as part of the camera weight. Im guessing anything that I can lead away from the camera with wires is the arm weight? How much do matte boxes weight and how much do flow focus systems add to the Camera weight if on a rail system?balanced working steadycam. Im thinking I may want to go with the V25 if my camera is so close to the limit. But I rather not. any advice on these weights?


I only have oowned and used a steadycam merlin in my time and now my camera has far exceeded the weight. I am really excited about being a steadcam operator and have been thinking about the day I can have a nicly balanced one for about a year now. the merlin was always a little top heavey becuase of the limit. Thanks for all the help guys. You all have been greatly heapfull. and its a real honor btw!
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#2 Lars Erik

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:02 PM

Hello Kyle,

remember its's steadicam. With an i. Just a detail.

As said in the last topic, the Flyer is maxed at around 19lbs. Chris has tested this.

Have you taken a workshop? If you haven't I strongly recommend you do this. It worth the investment. Believe me. By doing so, you won't fall into the trap of bad posture, and tons of other things you'll only learn at a workshop. Do one with either Jerry or GB, or preferably both! And you'll be able to test out the Flyer also.

Matte-boxes as everything else, weigh different. A good tip is to ask the 1st AC about the equipment they want to use, and look it up on the internet. Most items you'll find is lsted with weight.

LE
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#3 Kyle Fasanella

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 06:38 PM

Hello Kyle,

remember its's steadicam. With an i. Just a detail.

As said in the last topic, the Flyer is maxed at around 19lbs. Chris has tested this.

Have you taken a workshop? If you haven't I strongly recommend you do this. It worth the investment. Believe me. By doing so, you won't fall into the trap of bad posture, and tons of other things you'll only learn at a workshop. Do one with either Jerry or GB, or preferably both! And you'll be able to test out the Flyer also.



Steadicam steadicam steadicam. Il have to keep trying. I can't write good.

I would love to take a workshop in florida but I dont think there are going to be any workshops anytime soon. unless I find a personal trainer I think im on my own.
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#4 John Steele

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 07:31 AM

Hello Kyle,

remember its's steadicam. With an i. Just a detail.

As said in the last topic, the Flyer is maxed at around 19lbs. Chris has tested this.

Have you taken a workshop? If you haven't I strongly recommend you do this. It worth the investment. Believe me. By doing so, you won't fall into the trap of bad posture, and tons of other things you'll only learn at a workshop. Do one with either Jerry or GB, or preferably both! And you'll be able to test out the Flyer also.



Steadicam steadicam steadicam. Il have to keep trying. I can't write good.

I would love to take a workshop in florida but I dont think there are going to be any workshops anytime soon. unless I find a personal trainer I think im on my own.


Kyle, you would not be dissaopinted with the V25, the flyer gets so many recommendations because it's a "Steadicam" whereas glidecam mainly takes a bit of a bashing based on it's older products. Personally I think the V25 is a better rig and many people agree, with your camera weight at 13lbs there's not a lot of room for growth, Miko Wilson once did a test and had the flyer arm maxed out at 26lbs combined camera and sled weight, that's 14lbs less than the V25. There have been a few discussions about the two rigs so a search would be a good idea if you've not already done so, there is also a lot of into regarding the V25/Flyer over at www.steadiforum.com

link to Mikko's test
http://www.steadicam...wtopic=2636&hl=

John.
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#5 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:45 AM

Kyle,

"the flyer gets so many recommendations because it's a "Steadicam" whereas glidecam mainly takes a bit of a bashing based on it's older products."

That is not entirely true. Try both for yourself and decide. Many of us use non-Steadicam brands so its really about build quality and customer service. After all the hub-bub about the Flyer here, I flew one at NAB and... drum roll please... it pales in comparison to the Fllyer. While it may take more weight, the arm is no where nearly as good. The Flyer arm has a better boom range, is lighter, and most importantly of all is a TON smoother. Yes, the V-25 is a good value in that it offers a large weight range for the money (and its dirt cheap), but the Flyer just handles better. The V-25 sled is better than the arm, but there were a few obvious flaws with it (which I told the guys at Glidecam, who are very nice, by the way). The trim knobs stick out way too far, begging for damage (ala PRO's DB 1). The gimbal is not great either, but this may be unfair of me because I'm used to an XCS gimbal. The vest was very uncomfortable too. I suggested they add the back straps for more support, but in all seriousness, I was far less comfortable than flying my much heavier rig. The biggest thing was the arm though. Really didn't like it. With the arm bearing loose, the gimbal yoke would snap around in front of the monitor regardless of how I had it trimmed. They told me to just lock it in place and that all arms did this. I politely pointed out that my PRO did not. When they heard PRO arm, they said I must be rich. I explained that I was merely a professional doing a job.

So, this is not mere name bashing. This is a review. I tried it and what can I say? Every-time I try a Flyer, I think it is the coolest thing out there. It weighs nothing and has a fantastic arm! The thin post may look less impressive than a standard post but it provides the appropriate size grip for such a light weight rig.

If you want something more heavy duty, look at a used EFP. The arm is a lot better than a V-25's. If you do opt for the V-25, see if you can pay a little more and buy the Gold vest (which I have not tried, but assume it to be better) and get it with an industry standard socket block. Then I'd upgrade the arm as soon as possible while modifying the sled. Eventually, you could then sell it as a package when you've replaced all the components.

Again, try them all. Take a workshop and then try them all again. Just my 2 cents.
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#6 chris fawcett

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 11:57 AM

A salient post, Alec. May I second it?

Chris
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#7 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 01:12 PM

That is not entirely true. Try both for yourself and decide. Many of us use non-Steadicam brands so its really about build quality and customer service.



Totally agree Alec, Well said.
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#8 Tom Janetzke

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 10:59 AM

Your next best bet would be an Archer. Then you get the G-50 arm. WOW what a great arm and rig.
It is a step up in funds though. Have you contacted Peter Abraham about the Flyer questions? He runs a ton of workshops all over the country. Contact: magiccarpetfilms@hotmail.com
Take Care
Tom
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#9 mattmarek

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 11:21 AM

how about the steadicam merlin. according to the tiffen site:

'The Steadicam Merlin is half the weight and four times as stable as the JR. Yet, it can move as smoothly as the big $60,000 rigs used in Hollywood.'
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#10 Matt Burton

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 06:29 PM

If you want something more heavy duty, look at a used EFP. The arm is a lot better than a V-25's.


Hey Alec,
I'm really interested in how you thought the v25 arm performed.
I haven't had chance to try one out but was really hoping it would be up for the job.
Your the first person i've herd with a bad word to say about it, and yes i'd give alot of respect to your opinion.
-matt
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#11 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 11:19 AM

Matt,

Try and test a bunch of arms next to one another if at all possible. The new arms (G50, G70, PRO - not new, but still the King) are just so much better. They have better boom ranges and they just take no effort to boom up or down. The Glidecam arms are based on the 3a arm, which was a great arm for its day. Granted, it has been sometime since I've used a 3a arm, but I don't remember them being nearly as stiff as the Glidecam arms. Hell, a lot of the best shots ever were done with a 3a arm and when I look at my own work, a lot of the shots on my reel were done with a 3a arm (and in some cases sled).

The Flyer arm may not take the weight of the "big" arms, but it handles like a dream with a great boom range.

Other choices? I always thought the Master arm got a bad wrap because they had so many problems in the beginning because CP was so messed up. Later Ultra arms and any arm upgraded by Robert Luna worked very well and may be dropping in price (?) on the used market because of the G-series.

A lot of people love the Rig Engineering arm as well. This is still the technology behind the 3a arm, but done in a deluxe version. Rob Luna is now making new 3a arms too that have some of his own features.

Back to the V25 arm. Re-read my other post regarding the arm post bearing and the socket block. Mostly though, I just thought it was stiff. I will say it is better than the old CP arms with one bone (SK & ProVid) by the virtue of having two sections, but that is not saying all that much.

Price? No denying that this is a huge factor. You have to tackle this one. Just try everything you can get your hands on. Try and do it in a side-by-side setting or at least in a very short time span so you get a better sense of what each arm feels like compared to the others. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I suspect you haven't heard anything negative about the Glidecam arms because a lot of the people buying them don't know the difference because they have not really tried the other options out there (or they lack the operating experience to truly comprehend how a stiff arm impacts their work). They see the low price tag and jump on it (which is understandable). When I came up, there were no other options so I had to do it the old fashion way- save, borrow, and beg!
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#12 JobScholtze

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 06:23 PM

I did own the v25 for a couple of months, beside my gold. To be honest, i did like the V25. The arm had less friction than the Gold arm and was way smoother. It also depends on the weight you carry, the more heavy the better it is. I had the feeling it was very smooth. Perhaps it has some differences in arms? I dont know. I have bought the G50 arm last month, and yes thats a huge difference. But the pricetag of the G50, is about the hole v25 sled. Its a personell thing i guess. For the pricetag it preforms. Not to bad in my opinion. But Alec is right, try them all out before buying it. Make sure you like it. I sold the rig mostly becose i fly heavier setups. ANd boy, do i love that G50
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#13 Matt Burton

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 07:34 PM

My thinking was that because the v25 is based on the 3a that it would be fine even if it's miles away from say a g50 or pro arm.
I've flown a g50, 3a, flyer, provid and the rest but just never the v25. The only arm i've ever had problems with was a 3a and I think that was because I had the bones a little to high. It would always lock out when resting on shoulder and i'd have to un jam it back to it's normal possition.
I was hoping the v25 would be equal to a 3a arm and have the benifit of being new and refined.
So what I really want to test is how does the v25 arm fair against an old 3a ?
-matt
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