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swaying when stopping and panning


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#1 mark morgan

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 03:32 AM

so what is the best way to keep the rig from swaying or losing it's horizon when coming to a stop or moving pans, should the rig be more bottom heavy,or basically what is the best drop time for this situation
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#2 RobVanGelder

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:11 AM

To be honest...... practice practice practice.....

By making your rig more bottom heavy you will introduce more Pendulum-effect, so that doesn't really help.

The other main reason for a swaying horizon is a too tight grip on the gimbal, it all comes from the hand that steers.

Try to stop down gently. or start and accellerate gently, with minimum pressure on the gimbal. in fact when not touching the gimbal at all, you should be able to move the rig without real change of balance.
If it does, it means that it is definately not in dynamic balance. And some rigs wil never achieve that at all, then you need to correct constantly with your gimbal hand.

If you can do this on a slow and gentle speed, start to go a bit faster and faster. You will find that you don't need much more force to compensate for a roll or tilt, but that it is all concentrated in the final moments before you come to a stop or just in the very beginning of a movement. THERE it need to be gentle but positive.

Did you do a workshop? Then you might remember the hand-technique to compensate for the tilt when beginning or ending a movement. This is very important.
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#3 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:15 AM

First we use our real full name as our screen name here, Please change your screen name to reflect that.

What is your experience level? Have you taken a workshop? If not I suggest that you do. is your rig in dynamic balance? if not get it in balance. Then practice... A lot

Drop time is a personal taste issue, my rig is neutral, as in zero drop time. some people use one second, most use three
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#4 mark morgan

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 08:55 PM

aloha and thanks for the input,yes i have been lookin into workshops,i am rather excited to go to one,so that i don't pick up any bad habits,and yes i practice alot with the junk rig that i had, to the new one i have gotten and oh what a difference it makes,i know there are 2 day workshops and i hear about a 6 day workshops,but i can't find a schedule for a 6 day event

First we use our real full name as our screen name here, Please change your screen name to reflect that.

What is your experience level? Have you taken a workshop? If not I suggest that you do. is your rig in dynamic balance? if not get it in balance. Then practice... A lot

Drop time is a personal taste issue, my rig is neutral, as in zero drop time. some people use one second, most use three


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#5 mattmarek

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 09:23 AM

eric, you using an AR and thus your neutral drop time?
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#6 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 09:51 AM

Nope.

Been using a neutral drop time for years. Gives me much more flexibility in operating
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#7 mattmarek

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 03:20 PM

interesting. how many other op's out there use a neutral? wouldnt this make holding a horizon outside difficult? one blow of wind and the thing is spinning or you're compensating with your fingers....
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#8 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 03:33 PM

interesting. how many other op's out there use a neutral? wouldnt this make holding a horizon outside difficult? one blow of wind and the thing is spinning or you're compensating with your fingers....



Why would it? you have your masses in balance and with wind it's working on the top and bottom sail area equally.

Yes it takes more skill and practice but it also can make operating easier
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#9 Afton Grant

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 03:35 PM

interesting. how many other op's out there use a neutral? wouldnt this make holding a horizon outside difficult? one blow of wind and the thing is spinning or you're compensating with your fingers....


It doesn't really matter what your drop time is. It's all about motor memory. If your brain and muscles are conditioned to operate with a certain drop time, it should make no difference what the shooting conditions are. You automatically know what effect certain forces will have, and you automatically deal with them as needed. If your drop time changes and you are dealing with a setup you are not used to, that is when you may over/under compensate.
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#10 mattmarek

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 06:07 PM

i op about 3 sec drop time. i found in neutral that the mass on top or bottom would catch more of the wind and act against.
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#11 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 06:33 PM

i op about 3 sec drop time. i found in neutral that the mass on top or bottom would catch more of the wind and act against.



More like you perceived it and then added the input. neutral works very well in-fact it's the only way to operate something like the Alien.
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#12 RobVanGelder

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:28 PM

I use 4 seconds or longer, and as neutral as possible when on a motorized platform. (not with every camera possible.)
When I know i have to tilt quickly in the shot, I use neutral, in other shots I prefer a little bit of "self-uprighting" effect. (Sailing influence from my youth?)

I find that the wind mainly is of influence on the top part, the flat surface of the camera and magazines is often much larger than the compacted mass of the lower part.

Luckily, there is not much wind in Thailand
:D
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#13 TJ Williams

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:30 PM

If you think about it with a neutral setup the center of the mass is at the middle of the gymbal so your operating fingers on the handle are below the center of effort to make corrrections. Usually ops who do this end up working with their post hand, very close to the top of the handle.

A 2.5 sec drop usually puts the center of effort on a std length post at about the point where the first two fingers and the thumb oppose on the handle. This makes keeping good horizons and head space, easier since the correcting hand is at the center of the mass of the sled. Many ops in low mode to maximize the lowness operate with the hand above the gymbal. When doing this it seems better to me to go more neutral as the center of mass will again be closer to the operating hand.

For Aliens ops. I guess horizon is no longer an issue. and drop time is neutral..it's all done by the magic of electronics....

I used to crew on a sail boat racer called "Aliens ate my Buick" we on the crew referred to ourselves as "Alienated"....so perhaps for...... AlienatedOps horizon is not an issue??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#14 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:58 AM

Well TJ I disagree.

I operate with a neutral drop time and I have no horizon issues (Take a look at my reels if you want) and I don't use a AR...
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