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#1 Erwin Landau

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 02:39 AM

Lithium-Ion...

The more I learn about the latest developments in battery Technology the more I'm intriged to look into a switch. Especially with the power hungry HD Cameras (like the Genesis) but also the out look of running up to 15 or 20 mags of 35mm Film before changing the battery...

The latest I have seen, at NAB, are the Batteries that Tiffen developed for the new Ultra 2. In conjunction with IDX they developed the power cube.

So, if you are in the market maybe check out these batteries...

Some facts:

Capacity: 110 Wh/ 6 Amps
Voltage: 14.8 V
Size: 142mmx85mmx50mm
Weight: 750g (1.65 Lbs)
I was assured that they comply with FFC regulations and you can fly with up to 10 batts per case.

More:
http://www.steadicam...owercube_SS.pdf


Limitations: (I'm an Anton Bauer guy...)

-V-Lock mounting only
-New Style Chargers
-Price???? (Was not able to find one)
-Only sold by Tiffen.


Is that the solution?
Is that the future?



Erwin"powerless"Landau
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#2 thomas-english

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 05:17 AM

don t worry Erwin,

Not wanting to belittle the technological advances of tiffen or IDX which I reckon are great companies. Let s face it they all buy the same cells off the same massive factories in asia. These Lithium hi ampage cells will become available to PAG and AB soon enough.

I bought off vlock a conversion plate for 200 dollars a little ago so I can use the crews lithium batteries on my PAG sled and save my batts on tape jobs.

Thomas
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#3 Jordan Rubin

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 01:49 PM

Tiffen claims that two of those batteries will run a 435 @ 150fps effortlessly, but do they mean the 435ES which draws so much more power at start-ups, or the Advanced and Extreme models ? Remember, there are 50 435ES cameras for each Advanced/Extreme out there.

And has somebody actually used those batteries with a 435ES running film (and not empty magazines), a Preston with 2 motors, stiff Primos, video transmitter, on-board recorder, a pair of KS-6 gyros and a Cinetape/Panatape IN COLD WEATHER ?

Jordan
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#4 Imran Naqvi

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 02:10 PM

Tiffen claims that two of those batteries will run a 435 @ 150fps effortlessly, but do they mean the 435ES which draws so much more power at start-ups, or the Advanced and Extreme models ? Remember, there are 50 435ES cameras for each Advanced/Extreme out there.

And has somebody actually used those batteries with a 435ES running film (and not empty magazines), a Preston with 2 motors, stiff Primos, video transmitter, on-board recorder, a pair of KS-6 gyros and a Cinetape/Panatape IN COLD WEATHER ?

Jordan


If you take a look at this thread Jerry Holway has been using them on a feature with the Genesis, and give's a lot of info about their performance that might help.
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#5 Jerry Holway

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 02:11 PM

Tiffen claims that two of those batteries will run a 435 @ 150fps effortlessly, but do they mean the 435ES which draws so much more power at start-ups, or the Advanced and Extreme models ? Remember, there are 50 435ES cameras for each Advanced/Extreme out there.

And has somebody actually used those batteries with a 435ES running film (and not empty magazines), a Preston with 2 motors, stiff Primos, video transmitter, on-board recorder, a pair of KS-6 gyros and a Cinetape/Panatape IN COLD WEATHER ?

Jordan


Jordan,

The production batteries became available on Monday of the NAB show. Therefore, no such tests yet. But check my post on them under general discussion>genesis today and the specs on the Tiffen website. (the specs come from IDX's extensive tests, standards etc.)

One bit not covered in my posts: we were shooting in cold weather; usually between 15 and 30 degrees F most of the time.. So my numbers were not generated at the standard 20 degrees C. More like 25 to 35 degrees F. If ANY battery can handle the loads, at any humanly reasonable temperature, this one will.

BTW, Tiffen did some their initial tests with an "older" 435 ES camera and film at 150fps and pre-production batteries before I got to the Genesis and the first two "production" batteries. no problems. The batteries handle 10 amps continuously, up to 20 amps for short periods of time, and cut out at 24 amps.

Jerry
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#6 Guido Lux

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 06:35 PM

Hi guys!

Jerry,I actually like the idea of a switch to Vmount !Will you make the powercube also in the dockable version (like idx does withe theirs).I think that this would make your powercube even better!
Btw, glad we got to meet again!

Guido Lux
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#7 Jerry Holway

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 07:13 PM

Hi guys!

Jerry,I actually like the idea of a switch to Vmount !Will you make the powercube also in the dockable version (like idx does withe theirs).I think that this would make your powercube even better!
Btw, glad we got to meet again!

Guido Lux

Alas, it's my understanding that IDX does not want to make them that way now. The dockable ones also have more advanced battery metering (which can easily be displayed on screen...) perhaps in the future. I also like the V-mount. Easy to use, doesn't wobble in the mount. And good to see you and all the other ops at NAB.

Jerry
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#8 Frank Rush

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:18 PM

The first shipment of Steadicam Power Cubes will be received in early August 2006 from IDX.

The price has been established at $625.00 for each battery.

If you own a standard IDX battery charger then it will work fine.

We will offer a Package Price for various battery quantities and chargers.

Just call with your requirements.

A few batteries are out for limited test. If you are in the Los Angeles area and want to try them for one of your shoots then we will make some available.

Just give me a call.

Frank Rush
1.205.229.5572
frush@tiffen.com




Hi guys!

Jerry,I actually like the idea of a switch to Vmount !Will you make the powercube also in the dockable version (like idx does withe theirs).I think that this would make your powercube even better!
Btw, glad we got to meet again!

Guido Lux

Alas, it's my understanding that IDX does not want to make them that way now. The dockable ones also have more advanced battery metering (which can easily be displayed on screen...) perhaps in the future. I also like the V-mount. Easy to use, doesn't wobble in the mount. And good to see you and all the other ops at NAB.

Jerry


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#9 thomas-english

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 01:35 PM

so many good reasons to change over to Vmount if these power cube batteries are good,

- Use the hire firm batteries instead of trashing your own on tv jobs
- Have a variety of different sized vmounts for different weight setup cameras
- vmounts are cheaper due to volume and there are insanely cheap knock off batteries made
- firm fitting

I guess you could get away with only having 2 power cubes on 435 jobs? Is it cool to run the camera on one powercube and one regular vlock?
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#10 Brad Smith

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 07:32 PM

Guys, What am I missing, apart from the branding what is the difference between a regular idx battery and the "Steadicam Power Cube". I opted to go with Idx when I bought my rig because I thought they where the best value for quality Li Ion system I could buy. Plus their chargers are backwards compatible with other chemistrys. If or when I start to get work on 35mm film jobs, I can just buy a third party Ni Cad V lok battery, use it in conjunction with my idx LI Ion and I should be apples for any hi speed 435 etc.

Can anybody please clarify for me, do the specs on the Power Cube mean it can handle a higher draw than the regular IDX batts. I'm using the E10s

http://www.idxtek.com/endura.htm

Thanks in advance anyone who can do the maths!
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#11 Jerry Holway

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 02:41 PM

Apart from the branding, the Power Cubes have radically different chemistry and circuit boards, so that they can continuously handle 10 amps ( from -4 to + 113 degrees F!), and handle higher loads for briefer times. I believe they trip quickly at about 24 amps, and don't mind short loads of 20 amps or so. They weigh 750 grams and charge on regular IDX chargers. And they are still IATA compliant for transport.

So compared to the 10's and Dionic 90's and the like, they work better when cold and handle much much higher amp draws.

Jerry
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#12 Brad Smith

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 09:47 PM

Thanks for clearing that up Jerry,that's pretty cool, now I'll just have to get a couple of power cubes when those big film jobs start rolling in! :D
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