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SK2 v. Flyer


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#1 Nick Woods

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:15 PM

Hello,

I am a DP, and I am considering purchasing a Steadicam to handle my Arri SR I and Canon XL2. I intend to use the ARRI SR with Zeiss Prime Super speeds with a light shade instead of the heavier mattebox and rods. I believe the Arri will weigh almost 14-15 pounds with film, lens and video tap.

I contacted Steadicam and I was told that the Flyer is a better model than the SK2. But the description shows that the SK2 can hold up to 20lbs, while the Flyer holds only up to 15lb.

Any suggestions or recommendations from anyone who has used either model with the Arri SR I or II.

Thanx!

Nick
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#2 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:30 PM

Nick,

Tuff one. The Flyer certainly has a much better arm than an SK, yet in real world situations, I think the SR can weigh in at a lot more than 15 pounds. If you ever want to use remote focus, video transmitters, etc. (i.e. the toys that make Steadicam really work), you'll be in trouble fast with a maximum pay-load of 15 pounds. Plus, do you want to use the SR's onboard battery or power from the rig? I believe both systems have a 12V out (someone please confirm), but you may need this port to power one of the aforementioned accessories (sure you can get into "Y" cables, etc. but food for thought).

Of course, the other option, depending on the kind of work you do, you may just want to hire someone to do your Steadicam work. If you are truly keen on doing it yourself, I'd take a workshop before you purchase anything as this will allow you to use the various rigs and make a much more informed decision. It will also teach you the basics on how to use the damned thing!

Good luck.
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#3 Nick Woods

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 06:16 PM

Thanks Alec.

I agree it's a tough one especially considering that Steadicam and Arri advertise the Arri 235 35mm camera as suitable for the flyer. I checked the specs on that camera, and I believe it should be almost the same as an Arri Sr. For one, the body of the 235 alone is 7.7 lbs without a lens, mag, or film!

So if they're advertising the Arri 235 and the Flyer as a perfect match, why not the SR? But I'll take a workshop and decide for myself. I wish Steadicam would just have a list of each model with the corresponding cameras they support.

Nick,

Nick,

Tuff one. The Flyer certainly has a much better arm than an SK, yet in real world situations, I think the SR can weigh in at a lot more than 15 pounds. If you ever want to use remote focus, video transmitters, etc. (i.e. the toys that make Steadicam really work), you'll be in trouble fast with a maximum pay-load of 15 pounds. Plus, do you want to use the SR's onboard battery or power from the rig? I believe both systems have a 12V out (someone please confirm), but you may need this port to power one of the aforementioned accessories (sure you can get into "Y" cables, etc. but food for thought).

Of course, the other option, depending on the kind of work you do, you may just want to hire someone to do your Steadicam work. If you are truly keen on doing it yourself, I'd take a workshop before you purchase anything as this will allow you to use the various rigs and make a much more informed decision. It will also teach you the basics on how to use the damned thing!

Good luck.


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#4 AndySchwartz

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:00 PM

Hey Nick

I would second Alex on all that stuff.

I owned an SK2 and have used the Flyer a ton. My DP friend in DC just bought a Flyer to use with the HVX. The Flyer is a great rig, the arm is wonderful. I SK2 is a great rig as well. The arm, kind of a bummer. Not alot of range and the single section arm is a little less forgiving in the " i can see my footsteps in my shot" department. However the mass of the Sk is nicer than the flyer I think and the monitor is really decent.

I loved them both because they can do the job once you figure out their nuances. A great rig will not make up for crappy operation, but good form and control on a usable rig can work every time.

Workshop is key to success. Try and rent something or borrow a rig if you can. Also consider that whichever rig you go with you will always be able to find some crazy way to make it work.

take care
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#5 Erik Brul

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:15 PM

I owned an SK2 and have used the Flyer a ton. My DP friend in DC just bought a Flyer to use with the HVX. The Flyer is a great rig, the arm is wonderful. I SK2 is a great rig as well. The arm, kind of a bummer. Not alot of range and the single section arm is a little less forgiving in the " i can see my footsteps in my shot" department. However the mass of the Sk is nicer than the flyer I think and the monitor is really decent.

I loved them both because they can do the job once you figure out their nuances.
take care


And don't forget.., the Flyer is also available in a nice 24 volts, HD monitor package !

Best, Erik
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#6 Eric Young

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:16 AM

And don't forget.., the Flyer is also available in a nice 24 volts, HD monitor package !

Best, Erik


Yeah, but quite a bit more expensive!

You might also consider the new Glidecam V25. Weight range covers what you want, and is dual arm. I love my Flyer, but wish the max load was a bit more.
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#7 Gordon Li-Ron

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:27 AM

The tiffen steadicam website has a used section. They have a provid system for 11k.

http://www.steadicam...steadiUsed.html

The provid system can handle up to 26lbs cameras. definitely enough to fly an SR with some accesories. The provid arm is better than the SK2 arm but not better than the flyer. good luck



gordon
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#8 John Steele

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:11 AM

The tiffen steadicam website has a used section. They have a provid system for 11k.

http://www.steadicam...steadiUsed.html

The provid system can handle up to 26lbs cameras. definitely enough to fly an SR with some accesories. The provid arm is better than the SK2 arm but not better than the flyer. good luck



gordon


I would second eric's recommendation of the glidecam V25, of all the rigs discussed in this thread the V25 is the best choice, it's got a great arm, great sled, takes a 25lb camera and is great value for money. At the moment there's a special introductory price of $7995 on the V25 but that will go up to $9995 on the 1st May, even at the more expensive price it's still the best choice IMHO.

John.
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#9 RobinThwaites

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 07:46 AM

Nick

Flyer has a better arm and since your camera is an SR 1 it is 12 volt so you will be able to power from the sled to keep the weight down. Watch out for the extra that you might need to add if you use focus. XL 2 no problem.

Robin
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#10 Nick Woods

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 08:54 AM

Thanks for the responses.

Several members recommended the Glidecam V25 as an alternative. But I've heard from many operators that the Steadicam is always better as it is has been established and refined many times over, and that it's a true "industry standard."

I've used the small Glidecam 2000 (the handheld one with the weights at the bottom) to balance a GL2 and it was terrible. So I guess I have some hesitation with the Glidecam.

Other than the ability to carry weight of 25lbs, is there anything better about the Glidecam V25 in terms of performance and ease of use versus the Flyer?

Thanks.

Nick,

Nick

Flyer has a better arm and since your camera is an SR 1 it is 12 volt so you will be able to power from the sled to keep the weight down. Watch out for the extra that you might need to add if you use focus. XL 2 no problem.

Robin


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#11 John Steele

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:32 PM

Thanks for the responses.

Several members recommended the Glidecam V25 as an alternative. But I've heard from many operators that the Steadicam is always better as it is has been established and refined many times over, and that it's a true "industry standard."

I've used the small Glidecam 2000 (the handheld one with the weights at the bottom) to balance a GL2 and it was terrible. So I guess I have some hesitation with the Glidecam.

Other than the ability to carry weight of 25lbs, is there anything better about the Glidecam V25 in terms of performance and ease of use versus the Flyer?

Thanks.

Nick,

Nick

Flyer has a better arm and since your camera is an SR 1 it is 12 volt so you will be able to power from the sled to keep the weight down. Watch out for the extra that you might need to add if you use focus. XL 2 no problem.

Robin



Nick don't be fooled by thinking the only option is "Steadicam" if that were the case then we wouldn't have such wonderful products from companies like MK-V or GPI Pro just to name a couple, steadicam is NOT always better.

The flyer and V25 arm's performance is very difficult to differentiate, they are both very good, the V25 sled is a big improvement over the flyer sled, it's got 3 video ports and 4 12v power ports all wired through the post, a telescoping post and stronger contsruction, gimbal is very smooth and it's all no tools adjustments. Being able to fly the extra 10lbs is actually a big deal, the V25 will handle a lot of cameras that would work out just too heavy for the flyer, so having the extra capacity will give you more work opportunities. Again don't think that just because it has "steadicam" written on it automatically makes it the best, the V25 is probably the best performance/price ratio rig available at the moment.

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2000 pro and the V25 that's like comparing a yugo to a ferrari, the 2000 pro is a $300 handheld rig and the V25 is an $8000(until 1st May when it becomes a $10000) rig. The customer support I've had from glidecam is better than any other company I've ever had dealings with and I'm sure there are a number of glidecam customers that would agree with me on that.

Just check out the V25 and speak to Glidecam before you make any decisions you'll thank me for it. :D

John.
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#12 LeighWanstead

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:59 PM

Hi Nick,

If you have any back prolem, I highly suggest you forget about using stabilizer. It is not worth to risk your own health.

And experience yourself and treat yourself better if you can afford

I think that you really need to consider back mount vest as a feature check if you are first into this stabilizer business. You really need to ask around people about the feeling to hold 25lbs weight camera and don't forget to ask them how long they manage to get to their current level feeling comfortable to hold that kind of weight. Do they feel pain, any back pain stay in the vest etc?

You make really nice start here. You can ask them here about the question I raise. You need to listen to them.

The whole weight you carry is not only 25lbs weight camera. It needs to be balanced. This means add more weight to your package. And you have to be able to hold the weight far greater than 25lbs.

The best solution will be try yourself and carry weight of 25lbs camera with Glidecam V25 or Steadicam flyer. You don't need to walk, just stand in the vest and holding the weight without your hand touching the sled for let's say 15 minutes. This does not require you to be an experienced operator and you will know the feeling yourself. It is not simply check specification of seller of the arm to see if it can hold the weight. You need to check yourself if you can survive holding this kind of weight yourself.

FYI I can only stay in my front mount vest for around 15minutes for one take, but I once stay in my back mount vest for two hours with my jvc gy-dv5000 camera which weighs around 13.78 pounds(6.25kg). The whole package weighs around 48.50pounds(22kg) I am daily in my back mount vest for an hour without feeling pain. I just tried to hold my whole package 57.32 pounds(26kg) which includes my jvc gy-dv5000 without viewfinder 11.02pounds(5kg), dead weight 17.64pounds(8kg) for an hour without problem walking around last night. And my weight is 143.3pounds(65 kilograms) and I don't have strong muscle.

Hope that helps :)

Regards
Leigh
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#13 LeighWanstead

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 01:55 PM

Hi Nick,

Take a look at this thread and you will know that back mounted vest will help reduce your back pain.

http://www.steadicam...&hl=strong&st=0

You might get yourself injured, without proper equitment by simply hoping to carry more camera weight to earn more money.

REMEMBER safety is the most important thing to you, not the money.

Regards
Leigh
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#14 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:41 PM

Hi Nick,

Take a look at this thread and you will know that back mounted vest will help reduce your back pain.

http://www.steadicam...&hl=strong&st=0

You might get yourself injured, without proper equitment by simply hoping to carry more camera weight to earn more money.

REMEMBER safety is the most important thing to you, not the money.

Regards
Leigh




Simply not true, There are many of us that do not use back mount's. Why? Because they cause us pain, where the front mounts do not.

I was unaware that you bought a full size rig leigh. When did this happen?
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#15 LeighWanstead

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 05:55 PM

Hi Efletcher,

What pain do you have with back mount vest? I don't feel any pain in my back mount vest. May I ask if you feel any back pain in your front mount vest?

May I ask why you said that "I was unaware that you bought a full size rig leigh. When did this happen?"?

I never bought any full size rig whatever. I manufacture SmoothArm.

Regards
Leigh

Hi Nick,

Take a look at this thread and you will know that back mounted vest will help reduce your back pain.

http://www.steadicam...&hl=strong&st=0

You might get yourself injured, without proper equitment by simply hoping to carry more camera weight to earn more money.

REMEMBER safety is the most important thing to you, not the money.

Regards
Leigh




Simply not true, There are many of us that do not use back mount's. Why? Because they cause us pain, where the front mounts do not.

I was unaware that you bought a full size rig leigh. When did this happen?


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