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Basson or SteadiCam II


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#1 BirdBoy

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:46 PM

Hey everyone,
Please don?t take this as an opportunity to bash Basson again, I know ALL ABOUT 'em, but looking at the early CP/Steadicam products, they seem pretty low Tech. So aside from Pablo being a whinner, is a Basson much worse that an early Steadicam product ? They made Rocky with a pretty simple rig ? and a Basson is still $5000 including mods to make it pretty useable. Steadi's of that time were 30k, in the '70... That's like 60k now!

Just a thought ...

Steve
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#2 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 03:19 AM

Hey everyone,
Please don?t take this as an opportunity to bash Basson again, I know ALL ABOUT 'em, but looking at the early CP/Steadicam products, they seem pretty low Tech. So aside from Pablo being a whinner, is a Basson much worse that an early Steadicam product ? They made Rocky with a pretty simple rig ? and a Basson is still $5000 including mods to make it pretty useable. Steadi's of that time were 30k, in the '70... That's like 60k now!

Just a thought ...

Steve



Let's see, The Early Steadicam arm worked. The mod 1 flew pretty damn well (It was actually in dynamic balance) and it had probably the all time best suit.

The same can not be said for that Basson abortion
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#3 RobVanGelder

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 07:39 AM

And if you want to be taken serious here on the forum you should take the SERIOUS issues with Basson to heart and why in the world would you want to fall back in time 30 years? :huh:

(even back then the original was better and better designed than B... now)

If you ask people that are serious about this equipment and the Steadicam-"art-form" that many of us concider it to be, than expect the bashing of the lowest of the lowest!
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#4 Jason Williams

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:55 PM

When it comes down to it why does the Basson always take this beating ... after all they're good enough to advertise here on the forum (check the banner on the right hand side), I would suggest not calling the sponsors as it's not good for business. So when it suits they're good as they bring in the funds to pay for the forum, but when it suits, it's a piece of shit no one thinks is worth.

This is where I would ask optonica to step in and post some pics of his modded Basson - looks extremely neat and does have dynamic balance, and also cost the fraction of a "real deal" Steadicam.

Jason
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#5 BirdBoy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:08 PM

I guess my question invites bashing. Well ... in the end all that matters are the pictures. Rod, I saw your reel. My Basson can wag, loose level and bounce just like that.


It's the player, not the violin.
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#6 paul magee

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:25 PM

I guess my question invites bashing. Well ... in the end all that matters are the pictures. Rod, I saw your reel. My Basson can wag, lose level and bounce just like that.


It's the player, not the violin.


Do you have a name? Who is Rod and why are you slamming his reel?
Do you have a Basson already? If that's the case then why are you asking if it's better than an old Steadicam II? Are you thinking of trading it in for an old CP Steadicam II?
I just don't get the point of this thread , Why you would ask a question and then respond with an
attack against someone whose not even part of the thread.

Please sign your post.

paul magee
Philadelphia, PA
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#7 BirdBoy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:37 PM

Paul, dosen't take much to confuse you does it ?

Dr. Steve Karr
BirdBoy Pictures co.
Detroit
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#8 Anthony Graham

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:10 PM

I don't want to get to involved in an argument over basson.

But here are a few facts I'm aware off

1) I know of 3 bassons that failed
2) I know of 3 Glidcams that failed
3) I know of over 10 Steadicam rigs that failed. Including flyers, Masters, 3a and EFP rigs.

So In the grand scheme of things they don't really fail more than anybody elses.

I know you will say they don't carry as much weight... Bollocks!!! I flew I panaflex on my rig with film in but not running and it flew nicely. I overloaded the rig with twice the recommended weight. it bottomed out but the arm took the weight, try that with your rig I dare you!

I know the arm doesn't boom as easily as a steadicam but it isn't far off.

It is heavier yes but they have to cut costs somewhere and so out goes all the exotic materials.

The Gimbles are not always 100% but it is a very easy fix with a couple of spacer washers. The 3a gimble had shims for the pan bearing!

I know my basson isn't the best in the world and am fully aware it is way out of the league of Steadicam, GPI Pro or any of the other high end manufactures but my rig cost less than £3k (inc mods) I wouldn't expect it to. I wouldn't expect a ferrari for ford money!!!! I just keep thing in perspective!

I really hate it when people slag off the lower end rigs/operators. We can't all work for hollywood and get hollywood pay and rates, some of us have to work to considerably lower budgets.

I believe Mr Karr (birdboy) was trying to say it will be the operator who makes most of the difference in a rig not the brand badge it wears. I have no doubts if Mr Fletcher flew my Basson or a Glidecam he would out perform me easily even if I was flying his GPI/MK-V rig!

I don't agree however with slagging off operators (rob I believe rod was a typo) either, only offering advice and constructive criticism. Slagging off never helps anybody least of all ourselves.

If anybody is interested in seeing my modded basson try here.
Ant's sled mods
I can't figure out how to post pics here.


Please try not to pull me back into this argument
Anthony Graham

P.s. I'd swop my basson any day for a Steadicam I know it's 80% operator 20% rig, but Hay I wouldn't say no to that extra 20%
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#9 Mikko Wilson

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:43 PM

Rod = Rob?
Steve, Did you just (unconstructivly/maliciously) diss Rob's reel? :blink:

..And insult a senior (paying I might add) member? :o


I'm sorry, but we are profesionals here, please have some repect or take your attitude elsewhere.

- Mikko
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#10 BirdBoy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:16 PM

Rod = Rob?
Steve, Did you just (unconstructivly/maliciously) diss Rob's reel? :blink:

..And insult a senior (paying I might add) member? :o


I'm sorry, but we are profesionals here, please have some repect or take your attitude elsewhere.

- Mikko




Nice Ass Kissing Mikko.

I have sandals older than you and billed over $600,000 last year in a bad US economy. So don't tell me about professional.

Take a look at Rob's posted reel. Wag, wiggle and sway.
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#11 mattmarek

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:25 PM

so you billed over $600 000 last year alone, and are trying to penny pinch with a second rate system? :blink:
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#12 BirdBoy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:35 PM

It's really all about information, market & marketing and return on investment. It was nothing to do with emotion with brand recognition or the elitists thinking of a club. I'm one for the busier DP?s in Detroit and smart with my money. Just trying something new.

I wish this thread would have taken a different direction.

Steve
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#13 mattmarek

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:42 PM

well, in my opinion, you'd get more 'return' on your investment, if you went with a more 'known' and reliable brand. how many of your shoots do you dop with some russian arri knock off?
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#14 BirdBoy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:06 PM

well, in my opinion, you'd get more 'return' on your investment, if you went with a more 'known' and reliable brand. how many of your shoots do you dop with some russian arri knock off?



You know ... you're right. I started as a still guy 20 years ago. First Used Nikon, then New Nikon. Used Hassy then new Hassy. Used Sinar then new Sinar. Then came film. Bolex, then 16 ARRI's, then 35’s, then ... Well you get it.

I impulsively bought an ebay Basson wanting to get my feet wet in Steadi, to try it out.
For Pete sake ... We are all new sometime. I’m self-made, which means I have earned & learned with my OWN money. Not DAD's trust fund or whatever. So I try baby steps to see if it is even anything I'm interested in and can sell to my market.

I could buy a rig today if I felt Solid on my decision. But who wants a $800 a month payment on a kit that there is no work for ?

Thanks for responding,

Steve


PS Sorry Mikko for the shitty comment. Please except my apology.
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#15 Anthony Graham

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:31 PM

Hi

Matt I applaude you for giving a sensible response to The questions posted by Steve.

By pointing out that people will respect and trust a higher end system more. Not just bashing The lower end systems. I thank you!

This is the type of sensible answer that should be posted, and will earn respect of people who read these forums. Not just slagging off each other and there rigs.

Sometimes it will hold you back having a no name brand, as people are scared when you turn up with something a bit rough round the edges. Even if it can pull off the shots required. Look at wedding videographers, they have to go out and buy big shoulder mounted DV cameras when a modern semi pro dvcam's palmcorder style gives the same quality of footage. Because thats what there customers expect to see! I'm not saying a Basson can match a High end rig but you get my point.

The reason I bought my Basson is I wanted to practise steadicam techniques but couldn't afford say a used EFP rig so I chose my basson. I will upgrade when I have a market that requires it, and I can afford it.

Matt I have to also comment on some great photographs on your website in the gallery section. I also must ask what are you wearing in your avaitar? It looks like a cross between a welding helmet and a virtual reality helmet!

Ant
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