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Weight, size, inertia and bounce


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#1 Trimm

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

I'm new to camera stabilization and I want to know if a smaller camera is more difficult to get clean, non bouncing shots. I use a dslr mounted on a stabilizer and tried a vest and arm unit and my shots looked like I was in an earthquake. 

 

I've watched every stedicam video I could find on youtube and all the units I see have large camera's that weight much more than what I am using. And those shots are smooth as glass.

 

I want to know if adding weight, or creating a rig that will create more "camera" would mimic the look. When I use hand held, which the unit (with a gimble) has, my video looks ok. I can still see bounce and my horizon doesn't stay flat. 

 

I don't want to invest thousands into a hobby, but I'm looking for a fix to get similar results to the larger rigs. 

 

Am I barking up a tree here?


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#2 Francisco Orozco Jr

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:38 PM

Which camera and stabilizer are you currently using? I've made shots using something as small as a Canon Rebel DSLR with a very light zoom lens on a Steadicam Merlin which can't be distinguished from shots made on a much larger Steadicam Rig.  More weight always helps of course, and a vest/arm mounted system helps significantly to reduce the chance of footsteps showing up in your shots.  The horizon thing takes time unless you're talking about those electronic brush-less motor gimbal stabilizers.  I've even had great luck with an extremely bare minimum weight rig (Steadicam Smoothee) using an iPhone.  Hope this helps! 


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#3 Rich Cottrell

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 09:33 AM

Trimm,
You need to change your name to your real name.
It's one of the rules on this forum
Rich
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#4 Trimm

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

Trimm is my real name...

 

I use a canon DSLR but I can't get quality smooth shots without software to clean it up. My arm always comes through the shots. My rig is like a glidecam but a different brand. 

 

 

Here is an example (with software to clean up most of the bounce.)

 

15940409_10154631088276329_3038147130939


Edited by Trimm, 23 March 2017 - 03:30 PM.

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#5 Walter F. Rodriguez

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 04:14 PM

To be more clear, First and Last name need to be used.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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#6 Trimm

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 05:53 PM

My name is the most important thing in this forum?   Nobody wants to answer my question until I give you my first name?   Here, my first name is Edmundo... how is that?


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#7 Trimm

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 05:59 PM

I went to the edit profile page and there is no place to change my name... if I missed it, please post a link... thanks. 


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#8 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:53 PM

 Edmundo,

 

Welcome to our Forum.  You need to contact Tim Tyler, our Admin, to change your display name.  You can PM here:

 

http://www.steadicam....php?showuser=1

 

As for your question, yes, heavier rigs are inherently more stable, BUT there are so many factors.  I recommend you read through our "Newbies" section as it is a Goldmine for beginners (and I've moved this thread there as well).  This section is meant for beginners and enthusiasts (we are mostly a Forum for Professional Operators - that is why we are so picky about the real name thing).  Searching through the archives will address many of your questions.  I'd recommend a workshop too before you start playing around with a lot of weight and hurting yourself!  

 

Take good care,

 

Alec Jarnagin, SOC

Steadicam Forum Moderator


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#9 Janice Arthur

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 08:48 AM

Edmundo;

Start by turning your camera on the dovetail to point the long direction of the top plate.

Part of this issue you're having is that things in are in funny orientation.

This makes you how hold gear in now odd and then all this stuff is making operating harder.

Start there and see what other pieces might fall into place.

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#10 Keith Wood

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:35 PM

Stabilization is all about ENERGY.  You input it, and the rig has to attenuate it.

 

One way to attenuate energy is to swamp it -- in the case of inertia, that means putting it into mass.  More mass means that it takes more energy to get the same effect.

 

In lightweight gear like you and I are using, that also means SKILL, learning to move while also putting less energy into the rig.  This takes practice and a rig that is properly set up -- and lightweight rigs are more sensitive to balance and technique than one flying a 25-lb camera, just like it's harder to paint a portrait than to paint a house.

 

Check YouTube for videos on the Pilot and the Merlin, and you'll see the difference in technique.  They are subtle but definite, not a whole new song, but a "golden oldie" in a different accent.

 

Watch Garrett Brown in this vid (flying an 8-lb cam), and compare to the technique you see in big-cam videos:

 

 

Notice also that he has added weight to gain more stability, how little he had to add, and WHERE he has added that weight.  This is the answer to your question.

 

 

Now look at these guys.  Everything they do can be done big-cam, but watching this, you can almost FEEL the feather-lightness.

 

 

 

Kaze


Edited by Keith Wood, 25 March 2017 - 11:43 PM.

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#11 Martin Stacey

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:09 PM

Hi Edmundo,
I may be wrong but it also looked like you have auto stabilisation turned on in the camera which is trying to fight the camera movement. If that is the case make sure it is turned off as it becomes counterintuitive to what you are trying to achieve.
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#12 Edmundo Trimm

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 09:30 AM

Thanks for the advice, I did what I could and my last shoot was better. I'm still using software to correct the bit of shake and level but it's getting better. I also had to create a new account because I wasn't able to log in....

 

My last shoot was some soccer practice and I do find when I have a live subject (vs landscape shots) my framing is much better. I'll share that video here. 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Jq11-8JPcro

 

I'm not using image stabilization on my camera, the wide angle doesn't have it. 

 

Thing that gets me is when I watch the video's from the manufacturers of these "glide cam" rigs like I have, the shots always look like they came from a $5000 stedicam rig. I can't get those clean smooth level shots to save my life. I can get close but then need software to clean it up.

 

I wonder if those guys are cheating a bit and using software as well. 

 

I'd love to see a real stedicam rig up close and see how they maintain the even level horizon. 

 

I think a lot of it has to do with how heavy the rig is. I made an arm and vest and had ok results, but my rig is light enough that any body movement still bounces the frame up and down and right to left...

 

Anyway, keep the tips coming. 


Edited by Edmundo Trimm, 07 April 2017 - 09:35 AM.

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#13 Jordan Tetewsky

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:14 AM

Edmundo, they are not cheating. It just requires practice. I use the glidecams all the time and the footage looks as good as a real steadicam because they are essentially the same, one is just designed for heavier rigs.

 

 

The product you have is very cheap and not great, and very difficult to balance because it lacks fine tune adjustment knobs. I taught a class this semester and one of the students had that for his dslr, and we were able to balance it and get as usable shots as one might on a better hand-held stabilizer.

 

You can definitely throw on stabilizer and mask your shots, but this won't be necessary once you get good enough. Here's a project that the the student I had did with his stabilizer (same model as yours), and keep in mind, he's still learning just like you.

 


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#14 Edmundo Trimm

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 11:28 AM

Can you show me a picture of your rig please ?


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#15 Edmundo Trimm

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 04:49 PM


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