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Stand load requirement for Pilot arm?


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#1 Keith Wood

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:19 PM

Can anyone suggest a minimum load capability requirement for a stand to use for a Pilot arm with full 10 pounds of equipment?

 

I'm pretty sure that a 20-lb rating is more than enough, but what about 15?  12?

 

Thanks,

Kaze


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#2 Lisa Sene

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:30 AM

Hi Kaze,

 

If you have a Pilot that has 10lbs of camera payload, I would go with the 20lb rated stand at least, though you may want one with a higher rating. Without knowing the exact weights, I would factor in another 10-15lbs for the sled (that has a battery, cables, and probably some balance weights) and the arm, as well as the docking bracket. That means would could have 20-25lbs on the stand with the fully built sled as well as the arm. Again, I don't have the parts to weigh out, so you may want to grab a scale and see for yourself. You also want to make sure you have a stand that is heavy and sturdy enough to support the rig when it's on the balancing pin, which puts the rig father away from the stand and is the most likely time the stand will fall over. 

 

Definitely get at least one sandbag, and/or a heavier stand to make sure your rig is protected. For my Archer and G-50x arm (a setup which can be about 50-60lbs of camera/sled/arm/accessories), I have the American LS32 (specs http://www.americangrip.com/baby.asp) combined with these 8" wheels (http://www.backstage...ew Products.htm). When used together, the setup is heavy and strong enough to give me peace of mind when my rig is docked and when I'm balancing. The wheels also make life much easier when moving the rig around since I don't have a cart yet. I got the stand before the wheels, but knew that I wanted wheels, so that's another thing to consider when thinking about which stand to buy. If I wasn't going to get the wheels, I would have gone with the 14" straps (the blue part of the stand) on my stand instead of the 12" ones, as the 14" provide a wider (thus more sturdy) base than 12" with no wheels. 

 

While that stand may be overkill for your needs, it will definitely work, and will still serve you well if you ever upgrade to a heavier sled. 

 

Happy flying!

 

Lisa


Edited by Lisa Sene, 19 February 2017 - 11:37 AM.

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#3 Theodore Dalton Price

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:41 AM

As long as you get a metal stand with a solid 5/8 pin you should be good! I had a pilot on a cheaper stand where the pin was set in by only a thread underneath and it did the job on light loads but ended up snapping on a heavier load.


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#4 Keith Wood

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:40 PM

Lisa:

 

It's not overkill if it does the job.  However, bulkiness is a problem -- I go into the field with a Mustang, so I need to be able to fold things up. 

 

Shouldn't a 10lb camera have a significantly lower weight at the bottom of the sled?  My battery is a V-mount, I'm getting away from AB (both due to weight and because I've gotten very tired of every month (seemingly) having a new standard which requires a new charger.  I only have one camcorder that uses ABs, and it's on the market as a whole package.

 

The light stands and C stands I'm looking at all meet their load ratings while fully extended, and anything other than a Billy Barty will be long enough for the balancing while at half height (so will carry more than the rating).

 

I guess I'll have to use a sand bag.

 

 

Theodore:

 

Thanks for the advice on the pin.

 

Kaze


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#5 Lisa Sene

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:00 PM

Hi Kaze,

 

Cool ride! The stand I mentioned does fold up pretty compact, and it would be shorter than a 40in C-stand length-wise. 

 

As for the weight on the bottom of the sled in relation to camera payload, it all depends on your build and drop time preference. In high mode, you will have only more weight on the bottom than the top so the rig hangs vertically, but the exact ratio will depend on how slow or fast you like your drop time (i.e. how bottom-heavy you want your rig when operating).

 

The 20-25lb range I mentioned wasn't the weight on the bottom of the sled, it was the total weight on the stand. I was accounting for a battery, the weight of the sled itself, the balance weights, any cables, the docking bracket, and the arm; all of which will be on the stand and must be considered in total payload. My range could be off because I don't have all the parts to weigh out and am estimating. 

 

You could weigh out all the parts and see where you're at weight-wise, though if it were me I would go for a heavier stand for peace of mind. Personally, I always found C-stands to tip over far too easily when dynamic balancing for my own sanity (for reference that was with a Zephyr), so when I got my Archer I went with a stand setup that gave me the comfort to work without fear that my whole setup might fall over. 

 

Happy flying!

 

Lisa


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#6 Keith Wood

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 03:34 PM

Lisa:

 

Understood on the total weight, and agreed that heavier-duty is desired.  And I didn't make myself clear when I was talking about end weights, but my understanding of the math is that a large part of the balance is due to moment arm (that is, distance of masses from CG) rather than sheer weight.  And, thinking about it, that really doesn't matter anyhow when considering all-up weight.

 

It DOES matter when measuring moment arms from center of the stand to the ends of the legs, and from ground to height of the stand.

 

So, I'm looking in the 20 - 25 pound range (mass) at about 4 feet.  A stand which is stable with 15 lbs at 8 feet SHOULD handle this easily, because the shorter the arms, the greater the capacity (cube-square rule says 4 times as capable).  A stand which can support an M-1 tank would be better, but not practical for my application.  ;)

 

Just FYI, when I've got it all set up, my rig will be an EX1R (powered from sled btty), with either shotgun or wireless mic, POSSIBLY a Bluetooth transmitter to earphones for sound monitor and an appropriate fill light (also powered from sled btty).  I'm guessing about 8 pounds, but want to plan max load for the Pilot.

 

I'll mostly be shooting packages for a v-blog, pretty much for fun (I figure that if I'm interested in something, there will be other people also interested).  I may do some MVs and industrials (I did a lot of that in an earlier life, before I got into Steadicam), but I'm never going to be competition for you Steadicam pros.  I may WANT a bigger rig, but doubt that I will ever go past the Pilot. 

 

For that matter, I got to the Pilot through a Merlin2 (with vest) that came in a package deal when I bought out another shooter near me, and found a good deal on the Pilot sled.  Not too many people will know the difference between the Pilot and anything else anyhow, so I get to bask in the image of being a "real" Steadicam operator when surrounded by shooters lugging 40 lbs of cam, sticks, batteries, etc (You know why shooters don't need a health plan?  We get all the exercise we need as members of Club Sony!)

 

BTW, as near as I can figure, the only reason C stands got popular is because the legs stick out far enough for ADs to trip over when everyone needs a laugh.  I knew one AD who fell over or onto so much stuff that the grips handed him a membership application for IATSE and said if he laid down any more fingerprints, he'd have to join their local.

 

Kaze


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#7 Keith Wood

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 12:47 AM

It just struck me today that I have a perfectly good set of Sachtler sticks.

 

Can anyone think of any reason mot to use a tripod instead of a stand?


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