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HDSDI upgrade help please


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#1 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 12:51 PM

I'm using a self built sled that I constructed during the analog days...

 

My wiring is based on the PRO II I believe.

 

My coax BNC connections work for analog, but not for digital signals like HDSDI.

 

What do I need to change to enable digital over this cable?  Is it about the ground connections?

 

I'd like to add an HD screen for monitoring without running an external cable to the display.

 

Thanks!


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#2 Jarrett P. Morgan

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 01:53 PM

The wiring in the Pro 2 sled is run through the low voltage contacts of the lemo connector. While these connections are fine for a composite signal (which is just a voltage range anyway), there is no shielding to allow a digital signal to run through the same line. There are several ways to modify it. The easiest is to purchase an upgrade to Cine-Live from Pro or find a Pro Cine HD system for sale on here (though that is rare).

 

Cramped attic I believe does HDSDI upgrades to your system as well. I am not sure on the cost of that.

 

There are also DIY-ers out there (myself included). It depends on what tools you have at your disposal and how good you are with them. If you are interested in going that route I can certainly elaborate. 


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#3 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 07:55 PM

Bruce,

 

Let's get a few more details, shall we?  When you say your wiring is based on a PRO 2... does this include the center post cable (with the SD 8-pin Lemo) or just the connectors on the Junction boxes themselves?  If you have your post hard connected to the upper and lower J-Boxes, you can simply add a high quality BNC for HD-SDI.  Assuming you're using the SD 8-pin PRO style Lemo down the post however, you'll need to do major changes that include replacing the center post cable, as well as the main Lemo connector in the upper and lower Junction boxes.  In the case of a home built rig, I'd highly recommend having David Hable do it.

 

Good luck.


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#4 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:32 AM

Bruce,

 

Let's get a few more details, shall we?  When you say your wiring is based on a PRO 2... does this include the center post cable (with the SD 8-pin Lemo) or just the connectors on the Junction boxes themselves?  If you have your post hard connected to the upper and lower J-Boxes, you can simply add a high quality BNC for HD-SDI.  Assuming you're using the SD 8-pin PRO style Lemo down the post however, you'll need to do major changes that include replacing the center post cable, as well as the main Lemo connector in the upper and lower Junction boxes.  In the case of a home built rig, I'd highly recommend having David Hable do it.

 

Good luck.

Thanks Alec, I'm trying to remember how I wired this thing.  My jboxes are connected by a large lemo, maybe 10 pins.  A coax cable is wired to the big lemo and goes to the BNC plugs in the jboxes.  But, as this is based on the old PRO, there are also connections to small lemo plugs and the main lemo to the PRO green screen plugs.  It's possible that I could just disconnect the coax from the main power/video green screen connection and the mini 4pin lemos that we used in the old days to cinema video tap cameras.  Do you think that would do the trick?  I do have two sets of jboxes, so I guess I could experiment on one set and see how it goes.  I can always just get power from the green screen lemo, and connect the green screen by BNC when called for.


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#5 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:34 AM

Bruce,

 

Let's get a few more details, shall we?  When you say your wiring is based on a PRO 2... does this include the center post cable (with the SD 8-pin Lemo) or just the connectors on the Junction boxes themselves?  If you have your post hard connected to the upper and lower J-Boxes, you can simply add a high quality BNC for HD-SDI.  Assuming you're using the SD 8-pin PRO style Lemo down the post however, you'll need to do major changes that include replacing the center post cable, as well as the main Lemo connector in the upper and lower Junction boxes.  In the case of a home built rig, I'd highly recommend having David Hable do it.

 

Good luck.

And... who is David Hable?  And where is he located?


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#6 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:41 AM

The wiring in the Pro 2 sled is run through the low voltage contacts of the lemo connector. While these connections are fine for a composite signal (which is just a voltage range anyway), there is no shielding to allow a digital signal to run through the same line. There are several ways to modify it. The easiest is to purchase an upgrade to Cine-Live from Pro or find a Pro Cine HD system for sale on here (though that is rare).

 

Cramped attic I believe does HDSDI upgrades to your system as well. I am not sure on the cost of that.

 

There are also DIY-ers out there (myself included). It depends on what tools you have at your disposal and how good you are with them. If you are interested in going that route I can certainly elaborate. 

Jarrett, I guess I'm a half knowledgable diy'er.  I built the sled 16 years ago and did all of the soldering myself.  I copied the PRO wiring diagrams as I had a big inventory of cables for film cameras all based on my old PRO sled.  Are you saying that it's just the small 4pin Lemos (power and video) that are causing the issue?  Since videotaps are pretty rare these days, I guess I could disconnect the video from these small Lemos and run BNC should a film shoot ever materialize.  Is there an additional issue with the video connection to the main power/video lemo that goes to the green screen as well?  Is there also an issue of how the video ground is wired in the old PRO design?  I'm trying to remember if the power and video share the same ground...


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#7 Joel San Juan SOC

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:41 AM

David Hable:

crampedattic@gmail.com


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#8 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 09:08 PM

Bruce,

That cable is the classic 8-pin Lemo that the Pro used on their SD sleds. As I understand it, there is no way to get HD-SDI down that cable. It just wasn't built for it. Thus, the complete change over. Pro now uses a 19 pin Lemo with an actual Co-axle HD cable inside the cable and Lemo connector. David Hable can answer this better. He is an electronics guru in Vancover and has been modifying Steadicams for years. He upgraded my Pro Lite to HD since I could not just buy the parts from Pro as I could with my main sled. At this point, I know he has done this mod to a bunch of sleds. He buys the center post cables from XCS (they make them as well as Pro since they offer their 2" post with Pro connectors as an option). That center post cable is $900 alone, I believe. Plus the cost of David modifying the upper and lower junction boxes. His work is fabulous and well worth it though.
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#9 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 09:31 AM

Bruce,

That cable is the classic 8-pin Lemo that the Pro used on their SD sleds. As I understand it, there is no way to get HD-SDI down that cable. It just wasn't built for it. Thus, the complete change over. Pro now uses a 19 pin Lemo with an actual Co-axle HD cable inside the cable and Lemo connector. David Hable can answer this better. He is an electronics guru in Vancover and has been modifying Steadicams for years. He upgraded my Pro Lite to HD since I could not just buy the parts from Pro as I could with my main sled. At this point, I know he has done this mod to a bunch of sleds. He buys the center post cables from XCS (they make them as well as Pro since they offer their 2" post with Pro connectors as an option). That center post cable is $900 alone, I believe. Plus the cost of David modifying the upper and lower junction boxes. His work is fabulous and well worth it though.

My J-Boxes are based on the PRO.  My connecting cable is not.  It's a 10 pin Lemo at each end and is not built into the sled.  My center post is just that, a hollow tube.  My connecting cable for video is coax connected to the big Lemo at each end.  Inside the junction boxes, are not coax but very short cables from the BNC to the big Lemo.


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#10 Jens Piotrowski SOC

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 10:50 AM

Terry West In LA or David Hable in Canada.


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#11 Bruce Alan Greene

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 11:34 AM

Terry West In LA or David Hable in Canada.

Thanks Jens, I think I'll call Terry.


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#12 Ramon Engle

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 07:55 PM

Bruce. I've had Dave Hable modify 3 sleds for me. He does fantastic work. I'm not sure of the exact price but I think it was around $2700 for the upgrade. I could be wrong. Either way its a lot cheaper than buying PRO's upgrade. Nothing against PRO, I love their stuff and own a ton of it. Just think there should be a less expensive option out there.

Call cramped attic. You won't regret it. He can ad a tally line or just about whatever reasonable mod you need.

 

Ramon


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#13 Tommy Stork

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 11:32 PM

Hi Bruce,

  I've done the wiring for PRO since 2012 and understand the iterations of PRO sled wiring.  I'd be happy to help you out if you'd like, it's really not too difficult especially if you have a soldapullt!


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