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Smooth walking ....


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#1 Michael Binder

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 05:34 PM

Hello friendly people!

At first, i want to say, that i have been a still readear at this forum for a long time. But now, i feel to write something (i also want to appologize for my bad english).

I have an Sachtler Artemis EFP for a few weeks, and have been trying on my own a few steps. Day for day (practise makes perfekt <_< )

And YES: i will visit an workshop, but this is only possible in spring.

So, on sunday i have a job. 2 hours live. So i think, my walking is not as bad as it schould, BUT today i noticed one thing:

When walking and filming objects nearby me (filming left side or right side), i noticed (at 2/3 " DigiBeta at about 12mm), that my walk is not realy smooth. My slow walking. It is not that you can see bouncing, but its not always the same speed. You think you can see every step. Its like fast/slow/fast/slow and so on... (just litle, but i can see it).

Has anyone a good hint for me, how to walk right? I tried everything from "walking normal" to "walking like i have a hazelnut in the ass" ;-)

Only running is easy, but i have to go slow too, because on sunday, its a tv-show from a church :-D

thanks for the answers!

Michael
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#2 Afton Grant

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 10:06 PM

Hi Michael,

Welcome. What you are trying to do, the slow movements, are some of the most difficult operating skills to master. A pretty lengthy discussion on it was had a little while back. Read through that and as much of the rest of the forum as possible. Practice, practice, practice. That's the recurring theme you'll find everywhere.

http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=2049

Best,
Afton
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#3 Michael Binder

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 02:47 AM

Thanks afton,

i have already read this thred. And i keep on going practising. I'm looking forward for my worklshop. So up to this time, i will go on practice, practice, practice.

greets

michael
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#4 Christopher T. Paul- SOC

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 10:08 AM

Try taking some of the bounce out of your arm. Is it Iso-elastic? If so then just dial it out a bit so that you are carrying a bit more weight with your arms, (not a lot, just a little). If not iso-elastic, can you dial down the tension of your springs or swap to lighter duty springs?

This *may* help reduce your bounce factor.

Good luck!

CP
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#5 Nacho Minguez

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 11:18 AM

Hi guys,

for the Sachtler Artemis arm, that is a IIIA style arm, non-isoelastic, a simple and "logic" rule. Lower frequency steps, requires less tension spring and high frequency steps requires more tension spring. After that, you must adjust the height of the bones depend of the headroom, but always, you will need help the arm with a little force from your position hand, lifting the arm to the ideal tension springs.

Hope this helps


Nacho Minguez

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#6 Michael Binder

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 03:37 PM

Thank you guys for the answers...

... but as i said, the problem is not really the "bouncing" i think... it looks like, the rig doesnt fly a constand speed! So, not exactly 4,0 km/h all the time for example. One time 4,1 km/h, and when i make a step 3,8 km/h, then 4,1... you know what i mean? So, if i would push the rig. But it also looks like this, when i do not toucht it while walking...

:-(
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#7 charlesneufeld

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:16 PM

How is the footage when you only have a light grip on the arm hand/gimbal handle with nothing touching the rig/post?


~C
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#8 Michael Binder

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:41 PM

Hi!

I haven't yet tried this - i will do this tomorrow! But when touching the post, i do this very slightly. just correcting pan/tilt. only temporary touching.

today i have tried, to loosen the springs a bit more, so that the arms are about in middle-position (from up to down). footage looks a little bit better :rolleyes:

Tomorow i will try to walk without touching the post. Hope i can frame the picture ;-)

thx for the hints!


By the way another question: i had a 3-hours live-show on tv a time ago. What do you do? Taking a rest when you need? The director told me, that he has no plan what will happen. So when i was just taking the camera near by me, a little up to the shoulder, he always said "... what a picture can steadi give me?.." ... so it was one of my first jobs, so i did how he said, wether there was NOTHING to do... What would you do in your opinion (on sonday its again the same director :blink:
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#9 Nacho Minguez

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 04:59 PM

Hello again,

I think the problem it´s in the way you take the gimbal handle when you walk forward. Do you notice more walking forward than backward? Think, that when you walk back, you tend to pull from the gimbal with the position hand and when you walk forward, you push with this hand. The problem is to push the gimbal. Try the following. Rotate your body a little more frontal from the sled and with the position hand, try to pull the gimbal and not push, lifting a little your elbow. It isn´t a natural way for walking but it works. Think, that the way you walk is very important too. Yo must try to make soft steps with a foot on the other.




I see that you tried the arm with the tension in the middle of the boom range. Try to loose the springs a little more (about 10 degrees under horizontal bones), lift the arm to the headroom with your position hand, and will work even better for slow steps.

Best
Nacho Minguez

Steadicam Owner/Operator

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nachostd@terra.es

Edited by nachostd, 01 December 2005 - 05:02 PM.

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#10 Michael Binder

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 05:33 PM

... Try to loose the springs a little more (about 10 degrees under horizontal bones), lift the arm to the headroom with your position hand, and will work even better for slow steps...


Hi Nacho!

But when i loosen the springs more, the camera gets down more to ground. Filming so calld "frog-perspective :D ) And when i lift the arms with my possioning hand... wouldn this eleminate the function of the arms? I have learned, that the greatest enemy of the steadicam is the operator himself (in fact, his hands on it :rolleyes: ). So wouldn the best way of operating be to NOT TOUCH THE STEADICAM?

In fact, my rig has about 17 kilograms at the moment, on sonday it will get about 22 kilograms (an old camera from austrian broadcast, with d-link, winde-angle, 2 monitors, etc...) - So lift THIS with my arm ;-)

But thanks, i will try this tomorrow and report you.

I am so glad for your answers!!! Why couldn the workshop be last week :lol:

greets

michael

PS: of course i am training with a little more extrem situations (objects nearby me, focus-lengh about 12-20 mm, very slow, etc...)

Btw. slow walking is really difficult. I noticed, that i always tend to walk faster ;) I have to learn keeping speed to :lol:

Edited by redbin, 01 December 2005 - 05:34 PM.

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#11 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 05:34 PM

Its like fast/slow/fast/slow and so on... (just litle, but i can see it).


What you are describing sounds like you are slightly swaying sideways when walking slow and taking the sled with you. When walking very slowly straight towards an foreground object the swaying of your body and sled moves the back ground slightly left to right. When passing by an object (closing in and moving sideways) the left right movement of your body becomes part of the tracking speed. It slows down or even stops your slow tracking and speeding it up again by shifting the weight to the other side. Because you are walking so slowly the mass of the sled tends to follow you more. There are two things you have to practice: first walking more deliberate, second separate your body movement even more from the sled.
Hope this makes any sense and sorry for the rant.
Best
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#12 Michael Binder

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 05:46 PM

Hi!

Thanks for the answer. Yes, i think you are right.

Walking deliberate i try. I know the picture at the beginning, and at the end. When walking (in training), I try to keep the post in a line (while walking i look down the sled and monitor alternating (also looking sometimes WHERE i walk ;) )

What would YOU think would be more easier. Filming people sitting in banks one behind the other. And you have to walk them at one side. Filming with wide-angle at about 5mm and nearby, oder a litte more far away, and for it more focal lengh?
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#13 Nacho Minguez

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Posted 01 December 2005 - 05:58 PM

Michael,

you don´t lift all the sled weight with your arm. The Steadicam arm lift the most of the weight and you help to lift the rest up to the desired headroom position to avoid the "step" effect in the frame.

Nacho
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#14 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 04:03 AM

What would YOU think would be more easier. Filming people sitting in banks one behind the other. And you have to walk them at one side. Filming with wide-angle at about 5mm and nearby, oder a litte more far away, and for it more focal lengh?

In general shooting long lens makes things a bit harder. The longer the lens, flaws in operating have a greater part on your frame. Except being off level is less obvious. I guess it is an Advent/Christmass TV-event where you can't sell the same shot all the time. It is less a question of what's easier rather then what's the better frame.
Hope this helps
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#15 Michael Binder

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 04:10 AM

Hi Benjamin,

this is an 2-hours-tv-show from a church.

And you are right: I can not always walk the first row all the time ;). So the picture MUST be first thing, not depending, wether i can do or not ...

As i already said, i had an 3-hours-show a feew weeks ago in a church too. So, i think i am not as bad, because i have again the job. But i want to get perfect for me...


Now i will try to loosen the spirings a little more! See what will happen!
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