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Operating with TRIAX cable


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#1 manuelgarcia

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 01:33 PM

Hello, somebody know what is the best way to operate with a triax cable. I make a small bucle but I do not know wich is the best place to fit in the vest to operate without problem. Sometimes, the sled spin alone for the triax force. Thank

Manuel
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#2 Afton Grant

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 02:09 PM

Manuel,

It's not necessarily where you secure it on the vest that makes the difference on the sled. Up and over the shoulder is often the way to go to keep the cable out of your way. For the sled, however, you want to minimize the area in which the cable can affect the sled. If you've got a cable running from your vest to the camera, unsecured in between, you've got a large length of cable that has the ability to affect the movement of the sled. By securing the cable at as many points as possible, you can decrease the area of interference. At some point, the cable obviously has to go from your arm to the sled. Try to keep the secured points as close to the gimbal (center of gravity) as possible. This will minimize any effect the cable will have on the sled (some effect is unavoidable). Don't secure it so much that the sled cannot rotate smoothly. Don't leave so much slack that the weight of the cable pulls the sled in one direction or another. Long explanation short, a cable secured to the gimbal handle and the post, just above the gimbal is often the desired config.

Reminder! If you dock, detach...... I just started a post on rookie mistakes. I've got to imagine that's one of them.

Best,
Afton
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#3 Stephen Press

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 06:38 PM

I run the cable through the camera handle before plugging it into the back. Then I gaffer it straight down in the far side of the camera in line with the sled poll. I leave a long enough loop hanging to operate away from my body but not tangle in my legs or the sled and run it to the back of my harness tied to me by a belt that is not part of the harness for quick removal without having to take the harness off.
Working with cables is always a compromise. One of the best things to do is have a long chat with the cable cadies. I cover a lot of rugby and the $50 a game cadies tend to want watch the game instead of me. I tell them to keep both eyes on me if they want to keep up. The16 to 20 year olds smirk at the idea that a 40 year old with rig and camera will get away from them but I always do at some point.
Last year I made a point of having a race with them (minus rig) as part of my warm up? they were listing to me after that.
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#4 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:52 AM

Check the forum archives for this, plenty of advice there...

But mainly - get a lightweight (thin) triax if possible - www.productioncableservices.com - with the connectors you need. This helps improve the negative effect on the sled and also makes it easier to break away when docked.

Run the lightweight triax off the camera, tape up to camera handle is a good idea, as already mentioned. Then loop down off the camera, leaving plenty of slack to work with, run it under the shoulder pad and use a buckle or cable tie to attach the main triax to the back of your vest. Make sure you have a good cable basher!
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#5 David Berkes

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 03:36 PM

Hello, somebody know what is the best way to operate with a triax cable. I make a small bucle but I do not know wich is the best place to fit in the vest to operate without problem. Sometimes, the sled spin alone for the triax force. Thank

Manuel


Attached File  edtvest.JPG   29.13KB   397 downloads EDTV vest...
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#6 Rhys Duncan

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 05:07 PM

There are of course lightweight cables that you can get from tiffen but they are prone to break as they do not properly fit the large connectors , i myself have got the softer version of the 8mm triax that i can find and had adapters made that connect to the various cameras , that means you can avoid the stiffer triax cables and have a short adaptor maybe a metre and a half that you can rig , great for plug , unplug if you have A/B position on the shoot , as i often do on sport coverage without de rigging entire cable, i plug cable in back then run it thru arch where camera joins steadicam then to front rod and attach it securely to left hand rod , then make a loop that projects forward and hangs down to be above the monitor and return it down camera right , this time i do not attach to rod but have used old haden motor bracket to cradle cable so it is free to move , thus the loop gets bigger and smaler as i switch rig from side to side , and attach cable firmly to gimbal, i like this way personaly and have got good at it , the influence is minimal even though cable is large , i "train " it to do what i want and feel the longer cable lenght and route to gimble helps reduce its influence, anyway i suppose it is a matter of trial and error but it can and is done godluck
i run the sideline and do sport coverage in new zealand , namely rugby , also work in feature films , like to have the field covered
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#7 Stephen Press

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 07:55 PM

Cameron showed me his set up once and he makes it work real well. Helps that he is one hell of a good operator. Some of his sideline stuff is so good it looks like it was choreographed.
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#8 Chris Haarhoff

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 12:12 PM

Stephen, you are indeed a god...can you get me Collins' autograph?

To the original question, my brief experience with triax has been miserable, with my solution not winning many friends in the video world. I take a razor and carefully cut the cover away from the internal wires exposing three seperate and thinner wires. I skin about five feet of the cable in this way, which allows the triax to have the least possible influence on the rig regardless how you choose to run it. Of course, you still terminate the rest of the cable somewhere on your vest, making you feel like a penguin in bondage. Garrett taught us to run any cable over the camera, forming a hanging loop around about the top of your knees. This distilles the cable's influence to be mostly vertical.

At the end of the day, you've destroyed a perfectly good cable, but maybe this is the only way to get others to feel our pain.
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#9 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 02:53 PM

Stephen, you are indeed a god...can you get me Collins' autograph?

To the original question, my brief experience with triax has been miserable, with my solution not winning many friends in the video world. I take a razor and carefully cut the cover away from the internal wires exposing three seperate and thinner wires. I skin about five feet of the cable in this way, which allows the triax to have the least possible influence on the rig regardless how you choose to run it. Of course, you still terminate the rest of the cable somewhere on your vest, making you feel like a penguin in bondage. Garrett taught us to run any cable over the camera, forming a hanging loop around about the top of your knees. This distilles the cable's influence to be mostly vertical.

At the end of the day, you've destroyed a perfectly good cable, but maybe this is the only way to get others to feel our pain.



Chris is this you?
With that screen name I hope so, otherwise, somebody is ripping your
longtime email name off for use on this board.
Spoke to Jimmy yesterday, he mentioned you, I told him to
say hello. Talk to you soon

Michael
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#10 Denis-Noel Mostert

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 07:37 PM

When I use a cable, (I never had to use a triax) I attach the cable at the bottom of the battery rack right under the centre post where the center of gravity is. This way the cable does not pull the sled on the sides. The gimbal stays free. Of course, I balance the sled drop knowing that the cable is pulling the bottom.

I form a big loop with the cable. A long loop pull less on the sides. Finally I squeeze the cable under my shoulder pad so I'm not tied on the sled.

Try to have a thin cable that goes from the camera to the vest.

This always worked for me but NO CABLE IS THE BEST.

Denis
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#11 PeterAbraham

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Posted 24 December 2005 - 11:53 PM

Before I suggest some practical solutions, the idea offered up above that involves cutting a wire must be addressed. I have shot well over 100 live broadcast events, from the Olympics to soaps to Good Morning America to Webcasts. I am here to tell you that this particular suggestion is one to be avoided. Period. Here is why:
1. It shows a wanton disregard for the property of the Truck folks. This will earn you zero points with them, and they are your pipeline to the gear you will use on your live show.

2. It is without question completely unsafe. There is 165 volts running down a Tri-Ax cable. One does not slice into the cable. One doesn't throw snotty attitude at a production by vandalizing their gear to make them feel your pain. If one is not in the position to professionally handle the job and accessories, then perhaps one should stick to film cameras and not publicly advocate unsafe work practices. :)

3. You are creating a cable that will shock you- AND- may well fail while you are live. You have no back-up and when the camera head shorts out, you will have A)Gone dark while live , and B) damaged or destroyed the controller boards in the camera and C) Risked the safety of yourself and your cable pullers and D) Once the truck finds out you cut their cable down, you will be fired off of the job. Not great for you, your assistant or your career.

4. By severing instead of safely adapting the TriAx cable, you are risking having the camera lose continuous communication with it's base station back at the truck. If the CCU cannot control the camera, you are wasting everybody's time and denying them the shots that you are supposed to be delivering.

In all, this type of advice smacks of a slightly arrogant and wholly ignorant approach. I would beg those reading that post to disregard it.

Since the OP was about TriAx ( TA ) and not High Def cameras, I will only address TA situations. There are a few methods of dealing with the issues of the thick and torque-prone TA cables.

1. Obtain from Kings or GepCo a set of TA to Co-Ax ( CA ) barrel adaptors. These will allow you to turn around the cabling from the camera head from TA to CA, and run a Co-Ax cable from the camera to your vest. From there, you make use of the other gender of TA to CA barrel and convert the connection back to TA and so the run goes back to the Truck. This is a tried and true method. I would recommend the delicous neoprene-jacketed Mugami co-ax cable ( # 2964, noted as " Mugami High Def 75 Ohm coax 2964 " on the cabling itself ). This is a flexible braided cable, with enough copper to do the job yet with a flexible dielectric and neoprene outer jacketing. I've used it since about 1994 and I've only had the cable fail signal twice- both times it got caught and was torn out of the camera head. :eek: In this mode, you have the advantage of using the Truck's cable for all but about 6 feet of the run. And, more importantly, you can keep a spare 6 foot hunk of the Mugami velcro'd against your chest. God forbid something happens, you can swap out in 30 seconds and be back online fast. This is the set-up I used most frequently when I was shooting a lot of live t.v. with a larger rig. I did own one of #2 seen below, but it was a backup only. ( See bottom of post as to why ).

2. When the CP Video Vest was first announced, they had ordered a run of a very very tasty silicone-jacketed TriAx cable. No idea if Tiffen still has that stuff, or if they sell it with Tri Ax ends. If they do, that stuff is the cat's pajamas. Upside? It is true TriAx, and you have not shorted the inner and outer shields. Downside? It was pricey when I bought mine in the late 1990's, and if it cracks, you had better have a spare one on hand to swap out.

3. Some guys use the "thinner" TriAx that is available off the truck, or some who work network or continuous t.v. jobs have a short run made with connectors. It is narrower in gauge than the two thicker standard cables, but it is pretty stiff. You need to be careful about how you run that stuff to minimize twisting. Adam Keith at ABC has perfected that art. I've watched him build and shoot on and off for a few years, spending time pulling his focus on live shows. The work is exceedingly fine, and he uses a shortie yellow TriAx wired up by the folks at ABC. If you held the run of it, you'd be worried by how stiff it is, but if run carefully, it can be used for a long time without letting you down.

The reason you may be forced to use true TriAx is that the truck engineer, or SVO ( Senior Video Op ) or house engineer may refuse you the right to use TA to CA adaptors, under the fear that the cable adaptors could result in damage to the base station or camera body. Some are also adamant because of safety concerns. As I said, I've torn out the Mugami twice, while it was hot. Once it brushed my hand, once it didn't touch me. No gear was ever damaged, and my hand got a nice tingle there when it brushed me. ( See my harsh comments up top re: taking a knife to TriAx........ ). The safety issue, you usually simply cannot battle. The shorting fears, are another matter.

It's 2005. You will not be walking into a shop where you are the first person to operate a Steadicam in their studio. I just have to believe that 90% of the Engineers out there have faced a rig, know what you are going to ask for or pull out of your kit. It is only polite to ask first anyway. When hired for a truck job, I get the name and phone # of the company and get the actualy truck guy ON the phone. Tell him what I am doing, ask him if I may use my TA to CA adaptors. Most of the time when I did that, and asked instead of telling him/her, I was told that it was fine. Attitude counts, right?

Studio guys are more paranoid, and have refused me at times the right to use my TA to CA stuff. I had to make do with the old Silicone jacketed TA I got from CP, and prayed I didn't crack it. ( no back ups. Who doesn't have back ups? Me. With that. Bad !!! )

Hope some of this is helpful. Anyone have other things to throw in about live t.v. work, please do !!! Oh, and a bit of selfless pimping here at the end- I manufacture a cheap, very bright Tally Light that works with every camera, and every Steadicam They're all over the planet at this point, I've sold a bit over 200 of them in the last few years and have some in stock. Email me to get one. Or, if you're handy, you can do a Search on the boards here and people have posted up how to make your own ! Fun and gratifying to accomplish.

Best to all,

Peter Abraham
New York


Oh- as mentioned up there, wireless is best.

Total RF Video, and other companies make extremely reliable wireless backs for broadcast cameras. Ask if they are in use. If they will be on your upcoming gig, you will have one thing to look out for.

The wireless backs have an auto-location rotating dish ( albeit a very tiny one ) usually covered by a white plastic dome. The dish rotates to keep locked on the recieve dish that is mounted somewhere in the venue. As this small dish rotates, if it is not VERY smoothly mounted, you can have it start and stop with a bit of a jarring feeling. This will be seen in your shots, even fairly wide shots. Since the jarring is originating ON the sled, it really does show.

If this happens, you will want to see it early on during rehearsals on Day 1. Go to the RF guys, and ask them to swap camera heads out so you can find one that rides the nylon gear racking around more smoothly. Or, ask them to tweak the ride on your auto-locating dish motors so that you have no jarring backlash. I've only had that once, at the 2000 Super Bowl in Atlanta. The truck fellows were great, and fiddled with my camera back after hours. They presented me with it the next day for rehearsal and it moved with complete invisibility. Excellent stuff. ( I think at that gig it was Total RF that supplied us. )

Peter
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#12 Hervé Colosio

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Posted 25 December 2005 - 09:30 AM

here is some links for the RF systems .

http://www.broadcastrf.com/

http://www.gigawave.com/ go to digital RF


and the triax tiny yellow cable http://www.steady.co.uk/sale.htm from optex (picture with european triax lemo connectors)

Edited by krashtest, 25 December 2005 - 09:39 AM.

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#13 Marc_Abernathy

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 06:33 PM

actual photos of a Rig tethered to triax would speak volumes!

hey peter,

google only turns up "MOGAMI" cables... :ph34r


EDIT: im using a nice wireless cam system at CNN. its by LINK System 1120. CCU X-mitter/receiver and a RF link. does not use the rotating dish system, only an antenna. does not need to be line of sight either. $150,000.00... flys nicely... CCU duties are controlled wirelessly also (AWB, GAIN, ABB, etc...) has composite outs on it as well...

Edited by Marc_Abernathy, 26 December 2005 - 06:41 PM.

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#14 PeterAbraham

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 07:11 PM

Hey Marc,

I was given something similar to use at ABC News Washington Bureau about two years ago, to fly with my Flyer prototype rig.

Image was tasty, no rotating dish, etc. However there was about a 1/2 - 1 second lag in my shot. It took that long for the signal to be processed. ( Me, that sounds like frantic bullshit to me but what do I know? When surrounded by grumbling staff engineers, I sit and idly pluck at my velcro straps and wait it out. )

Glad you got a unit that has no line-of-sight issues- next time I am in ATL, I would love to see it ! And, tell Andy I said hi.

Best

Peter

Um. In that BroadcastRF link? I would just like to publicly say that the guy wearing the Steadicam who thinks he's Operating it but apparently is not? That's not me.

:blink:
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#15 IgorSavatovic

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 05:28 AM

Regarding the Link Digital Wireless System, mentioned above!!!

If someone is interested to rent it in Europe, please feel free to contact me.

Here you can find specifications and different packages of this wirless system! (unfortunatlly I didn't have time to list it in my equipment list on my web site, but I'll do it soon! :-) !!!)
and of course, some pictures of me in action with the Link

http://www.steadicam.orka.hr/link/

All I can say is, that this thing works like a dream..... If you need more info, contact me!!

Kind regards, Igor
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