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Kenyon 6x6 Gyro on Ultra2 sled


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#1 axel ebermann

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:14 PM

Has anybody used that combination ?

 

I am looking for a gyro solution. But I find that rigging two gyros

takes a little too long  (not for me - but for the ferret-on-chrystal-meth production

people).

 

Plus ideally you need to find two gyros that are exactly equally strong. Which is a bit of a journey...

 

My idea would be to pop the 'double gyro' aka Kenyon 6x6 with an anton bauer adapter plate directly on the battery plate of the sled.

And then power gyros and sled via cables from batteries in a backpack.

 

The idea is to no making the sled to bottom heavy but being able to go relatively quickly between 

gyro / no gyro while at the same time not making the sled super heavy with all the required batteries.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Much appreciated.

 

Axel


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#2 Tom Wills

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:24 AM

Axel,

 

Larry McConkey is using the X Gyros on his rig in a similar configuration to what you're mentioning, although he has worked out a beautiful system which replaces the entire battery setup with a rock solid machined aluminum mount that places the gyro exactly where the batteries were. Moving the batteries and inverters off the rig to a backpack and running with an umbilical is very smart though.

 

A few things to consider - AB mounts, especially just off the shelf, have a significant amount of play in them. It's easy enough to make them solid with a few patches of Velcro, but considering the forces you're putting in to the rig via the gyro, you want to be extra sure that however you mount the gyros to the rig is absolutely positively solid. Also of note is the fact that the gyro's optimal orientation on a sled is perfectly flat, and getting that orientation while on the Ultra's tiltable battery mount may require a bit of finesse.

 

The X gyro does simplify the process significantly however, as you guessed. With the previous gyros, getting them at exact 90 degrees to each other, mounting them solidly, and orienting them properly to the sled was a big hassle. Also, as you said, the gyros needed to be hand tested, and I've seen Larry's test jig where he tested a dozen or so gyros to find the pair that matched. The X does alleviate those issues, and I think it's a really spot on product from Kenyon.

 

Now I just need to convince some producer that I need it for a shot so I can rent it and put it on my rig!


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#3 Kevin Andrews SOC

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

http://www.denverste.../cbhd/image1r6z

 

Pic above shows 6x6 gyro, powered with Kenyon's compact inverter via a dtap off of my rear battery position. All on sled, no backpack and lots of run time on a dionic HC. Thanks to Tom's custom bracket, it was a super solid mount. I was actually afraid to pan too fast because I could feel my sled twisting under the strength of the gyro. You won't want to operate without a gyro after!


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#4 axel ebermann

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

Ha !

 

awesome. thanks a lot for the information.

 

Doesn't the sled get super bottom heavy (or in this particular case top heavy) like that though ?

And who is this mysterious Mr. Tom who really wants to make me another on of those brackets ?


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#5 axel ebermann

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:39 PM

Axel,

 

Larry McConkey is using the X Gyros on his rig in a similar configuration to what you're mentioning, although he has worked out a beautiful system which replaces the entire battery setup with a rock solid machined aluminum mount that places the gyro exactly where the batteries were. Moving the batteries and inverters off the rig to a backpack and running with an umbilical is very smart though.

 

A few things to consider - AB mounts, especially just off the shelf, have a significant amount of play in them. It's easy enough to make them solid with a few patches of Velcro, but considering the forces you're putting in to the rig via the gyro, you want to be extra sure that however you mount the gyros to the rig is absolutely positively solid. Also of note is the fact that the gyro's optimal orientation on a sled is perfectly flat, and getting that orientation while on the Ultra's tiltable battery mount may require a bit of finesse.

 

The X gyro does simplify the process significantly however, as you guessed. With the previous gyros, getting them at exact 90 degrees to each other, mounting them solidly, and orienting them properly to the sled was a big hassle. Also, as you said, the gyros needed to be hand tested, and I've seen Larry's test jig where he tested a dozen or so gyros to find the pair that matched. The X does alleviate those issues, and I think it's a really spot on product from Kenyon.

 

Now I just need to convince some producer that I need it for a shot so I can rent it and put it on my rig!

 

 

thanks. 

 

Yeah I heard that Larry McConkey went 6x6. Very good point with the battery plates and the potential play in them.

I had thought about that and it would not be beneath me to McGyver stabilize that a little bit.

 

However I would be concerned that the entire battery mounting unit is not made to absorb that kind of torque / strain.

Will have to test that.

 

Or I just knock on Larry McConkey's door and ask him for his machine shop hookup :-)


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#6 RonBaldwin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:51 PM

Once you get a system down and figure out exactly where they go you'll be up and running before they get up to speed -- so you'll be rolling in under 10 min
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#7 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:33 AM

Axel, I have cut and pasted an old letter I received from Larry here:

 

http://www.steadicam...topic=88&page=4

 

This was before the readymade X gyros were available, so I am not sure this will answer anything, but it may help.


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#8 Ron Aerts

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:31 PM

I have a kenyon set with two separate gyros. I always bring a separate cheap small car battery on my magliner (also 220 sine converter, so I can charge phones/nextodi en other stuff)
I use the car battery for powering up the gyros because the power draw is huge at start up and will kill/damage your expensive dichroics etc. Once they're speeded up (5min) they use significantly less power. Then I connect them to the sled power on 1 separate dichroic sololy. For long runs I can connect them to a backpack. Never needed this though.
I use a standard car adapter. In case of dead carbattery, there most of the time is a car around and i can tap of the lighter.
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#9 Kevin Andrews SOC

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 09:50 PM

Yes the 6x6 adds a lot of weight to the sled. Feels like 5-7lbs in the hand. You'll definitely need to get your gimbal further from the lighter mass. I even added a second battery to the camera just for weight. But all that mass combined with the gyros is very stable. Great for vehicle mounts, or windy conditions.


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#10 Geoff Owen

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:59 PM

Hi All,

I've never used gyros, haven't even seen one in the 26 years of working with steadicams, so please excuse my total ignorace on the subject. However I'm interested in finding out a bit more about them as I'm just about to buy a new Rig and thinking that perhaps I should include gyros into my kit. If bought they may never be used judging on my past experience of not having enough time to put them in place and start them up plus having the sound deptartment complaining about their hum and the producer wanting to know why they have to spend extra on ADR.

 

One question I have relates to the pound Inch2 (squared) inertial force created by the gyro.

 

Eg. The Tiffen site quotes that the inertial control given by expanding the battery - monitor distance to the maximum gives 2,564 pound inch 2 (squared), naturally this figure would vary depending on how many batteries and what type of monitor you use but can a similar figure be quoted about the strength of a single K6 gyro acting on the pan axis?

 

In a previous post it was said that Larry M's set up replaces the Rig's batteries with his gyros (I hope I understood this correctly), I presume that this configuration maintains the Rigs inherant inertial control created by the distance between the Monitor and Gyro as well as adding the stability that the Gyro generates. Is this correct?

 

Although whip pans are probably not a consideration when you add Gyros and I expect that Dynamic Balance is not a huge consideration either, however in the previous Larry M set up what happens to Dynamic balance. I expect that while the Gyros are not running dynamic balance can be achieved as usual, however when the Gyros are spinning and creating a new force beyond just the mass of the Gyro itself does this effect the dynamic balance?

 

Is Dynamic Balance important when using Gyros?

 

If dynamic balance is altered does this effect even a slow pan?

 

Thanks, Geoff


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