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Need some weight limitation insight


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#1 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

Hi all. 

 

I will be on a gig this weekend that requires a bit of a heavy build. My current rig can only support 20 pounds, so Im trying to arrive at a solution. Haven't had much luck so far.

 

The rig is a Sony F3, bartech, Sony 35 T2.0, kipro (here's where it gets tricky), and the AB that powers the kipro. 

 

Production wants the kipro for uncompressed video, but the kipro and battery pushes my weight envelope and makes me nervous. 

 

Production has said if they need to sacrifice uncompressed, they will, however, then I am left without a way to D-tap the bartech receiver.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

Kevin

 


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#2 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:38 PM

Also - forgot to mention that I do not have the proper wire to power the F3 via my steadicam's 3 pin lemo. 


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#3 Brian Freesh

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

Have you actually weighed the build? That doesn't sound like it would be much over 20lbs, though I admit I do not know the weight of the KiPro.

 

If you lose the KiPro, do you have to lose the AB?

 

The F3 takes an on board battery, so you shouldn't need a cable to power it.

 

You should have a cable to power the bartech from your sled. If you don't have one, you could order one today and have it by tomorrow.

 

Can you leave the KiPro off the sled and cable to it?  Not ideal, especially with a lightweight sled, but it'd get the job done.

 

Can you put the KiPro on the bottom of the sled? If you do that you'll be able to remove counterbalance weight, thus making the whole sled lighter.

 

You don't want to be the guy who couldn't get production what they want.  I feel like there are several ways to achieve the KiPro, and production isn't responsible for powering your BFD, so just let this be the job that buys you that cable and then you won't have to worry about it in the future (buy two, always have a backup)


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#4 Tilman Holzhauer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

Rent an F5 instead and convince production that the 10bit codec that uses sony is fine for postproduction

and an excellent way to make you both happy.

If you don't do very heavy color correction or green/bluescreen there won't be much of a difference.

Of course it's not Prores..but it's 10bit and a good codec.

 

Use a lighter recorder (Samurai/Nanoflash/Pix). The Kipro is old and heavy.

 

If you don't use any recorder you can still use a light AB-battery on top. You can

rent a lightweight AB battery mount (with d-tap) that goes on rods anywhere.


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#5 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:38 PM

Have you actually weighed the build? That doesn't sound like it would be much over 20lbs, though I admit I do not know the weight of the KiPro.

 

If you lose the KiPro, do you have to lose the AB?

 

The F3 takes an on board battery, so you shouldn't need a cable to power it.

 

You should have a cable to power the bartech from your sled. If you don't have one, you could order one today and have it by tomorrow.

 

Can you leave the KiPro off the sled and cable to it?  Not ideal, especially with a lightweight sled, but it'd get the job done.

 

Can you put the KiPro on the bottom of the sled? If you do that you'll be able to remove counterbalance weight, thus making the whole sled lighter.

 

You don't want to be the guy who couldn't get production what they want.  I feel like there are several ways to achieve the KiPro, and production isn't responsible for powering your BFD, so just let this be the job that buys you that cable and then you won't have to worry about it in the future (buy two, always have a backup)

 

Brian,

 

Thanks for the reply. I was actually searching for a d-tap to lemo online, but couldn't find any that were long enough to reach from sled to camera for the Bartech (all I could find was 2 feet). Do you know how I could go about obtaining one? If I can find one, I could then ideally mount the kipro to the sled and run the SDIs and D tap up to camera! I hadn't thought of that!

 

I haven't been able to weigh the build unfortunately, but it did 'feel' heavier than 20 pounds. I should add a scale to my kit. 


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#6 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:39 PM

Rent an F5 instead and convince production that the 10bit codec that uses sony is fine for postproduction

and an excellent way to make you both happy.

If you don't do very heavy color correction or green/bluescreen there won't be much of a difference.

Of course it's not Prores..but it's 10bit and a good codec.

 

Use a lighter recorder (Samurai/Nanoflash/Pix). The Kipro is old and heavy.

 

If you don't use any recorder you can still use a light AB-battery on top. You can

rent a lightweight AB battery mount (with d-tap) that goes on rods anywhere.

 

Tilman,

Different gear would certainly help, but I'm afraid it's not interchangeable in this scenario. :(


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#7 Victor Lazaro

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

What kind of rig do you have?

If you can, I would advise to try the rig first and test fly it. If the arm handles it and your post doesn't get too wobbly, then you are good to go. 

Do you have any power plugs on your top stage? How do you usually power the bartech? I have had a cable custom made that takes the top stage lemo to a female Ptap for those situations. You could also get a shorter lemo to ptap and get a ptap extention cable http://www.bhphotovi...8130 4050908109


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#8 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:08 PM

What kind of rig do you have?

If you can, I would advise to try the rig first and test fly it. If the arm handles it and your post doesn't get too wobbly, then you are good to go. 

Do you have any power plugs on your top stage? How do you usually power the bartech? I have had a cable custom made that takes the top stage lemo to a female Ptap for those situations. You could also get a shorter lemo to ptap and get a ptap extention cable http://www.bhphotovi...8130 4050908109

 

Hey Victor,

 

I have a Flyer-LE

 

In terms of how the arm handles the weight, I was actually wondering how I would be able to recognize if the arm is under too much strain. I have heard that people say "you can feel it". I am just trying to be pre-cautious. I have never flown this much weight on my rig before. 

 

My stage has a 3 pin lemo connector. I haven't had the chance to use it yet, actually.

 

Those dtap extensions are fantastic! I feel silly for not searching for these earlier! 

 

Looks like I have a solution now.  :D


Edited by Kevin Stiller, 16 January 2014 - 02:12 PM.

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#9 Victor Lazaro

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:58 PM

If you top out the knob on your arm then your out of the limit. If you wear it and the sled behaves in a weird way you might be too heavy too.
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#10 Brian Freesh

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

Kevin,

 

If the arm sags at maximum tension, it's overweight, if it floats even you're good.

 

Now... the arm may take more weight than the rig is rated for.  One job here or there slightly overweight isn't gonna destroy the sled, but do it a lot and you'll notice extra wear and tear (like I did back when).

 

I was suggesting to move the KiPro to the bottom in conjunction with getting the proper cable to power your bartech from the top stage.  Jim Bartell sells this cable, you could order it today and have it tomorrow. They are normally very short though, because the Rx is normally very close to the power port.  You'll want one long enough to get to your Rx wherever you mount it.  Check with Jim to see what he can do.

 

Alternatively, a cable maker like Terry West or Chris Konash (sp?) can make you a Multitap that powers from the Lemo on your top stage. That way you'll have 4 P-tap ports available every time you shoot, no matter what camera you use. It'll be more expensive than the 3pin-2pin lemo, but ultimately may prove more valuable.


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#11 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

There are also P-Tap splitters that give you multiple outputs from one P-Tap connection

 

http://www.bhphotovi...arch=yes&sts=ta


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#12 Victor Lazaro

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:26 PM

I would definitely reach out to terry west. I ordered my Lemo 3pin to ptap female from him and I'm happy. Plus I have a multi ptap and the bartech to lemo as well. (you'll need these cables one day or another so dont hesitate they are great addition to your kit) 

Placing the kipro at the bottom is a good idea but you need to check that the signal will pass through the post.

Good luck and fly safe.


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#13 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:34 PM

Kevin,

 

If the arm sags at maximum tension, it's overweight, if it floats even you're good.

 

Now... the arm may take more weight than the rig is rated for.  One job here or there slightly overweight isn't gonna destroy the sled, but do it a lot and you'll notice extra wear and tear (like I did back when).

 

I was suggesting to move the KiPro to the bottom in conjunction with getting the proper cable to power your bartech from the top stage.  Jim Bartell sells this cable, you could order it today and have it tomorrow. They are normally very short though, because the Rx is normally very close to the power port.  You'll want one long enough to get to your Rx wherever you mount it.  Check with Jim to see what he can do.

 

Alternatively, a cable maker like Terry West or Chris Konash (sp?) can make you a Multitap that powers from the Lemo on your top stage. That way you'll have 4 P-tap ports available every time you shoot, no matter what camera you use. It'll be more expensive than the 3pin-2pin lemo, but ultimately may prove more valuable.

 

Wow. I will definitely be contacting Terry about the multitap. Sounds like it will be of much help down the road.


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#14 Kevin Stiller

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:36 PM

If you top out the knob on your arm then your out of the limit. If you wear it and the sled behaves in a weird way you might be too heavy too.

 

I wasn't aware it was that simple to tell. That is helpful knowledge.

 

I'm a rather small guy, so weight on my steadicam is the only thing I have to worry about for now  :P


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#15 Joe Lawry

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:35 PM

Is it the full size Kipro or the KiPro mini you are using?


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