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Cinetronic Image Issue


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#1 Justin Besser

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:36 PM

An image defect issue that seems to be getting worse.
See attached picture.

the part of the image that is a reddish colour, I was actually shooting a white wall .. 
it seems when I turn up the backlight up past halfway, all the whites turn a weird red, as if the backlight is illuminating some defect on the panel.
This also happens when the sun shines on the screen ..
it looks like a red smeary pattern that shifts around ..
anyone else have this issue ?

 

 

Justin

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#2 Justin Besser

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 05:19 PM

further detail to that

I have the brightness set low (maybe at 30) and only turn the backlight up .. 

if I cast a shadow over the monitor the picture appears normal.. its like if the backlight is up and there is light on the front this strange red pattern appears on light areas of the picture .. 


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#3 Jens Piotrowski SOC

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:20 PM

I have not seen this, did you try the "factory reset" in the menu? What is Chris saying about it?
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#4 Justin Besser

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:46 PM

The Problem seems to be getting worse, the image starts to get real dark, looses contrast and gets this red/brown looking stain over it.
It renders the picture almost un-useable after a while ...

I have also found a couple of dead/stuck pixels ..

trying to contact chris or mike is painful to say the least, no-one answers their phone and my emails are going un-responded to.. 

I am based in Sydney/Australia and not able to just drop in to get this resolved .. 

unsure what to do at this point, or what options I have.. I need a fix and it seems unfair for the amount of money i've sunk into this thing and the time spent waiting and waiting for absolutely everything (for the monitior to be send, for emails to be answered, for the level, etc etc) that I am going to be left with a brick..

 

anyone have any ideas ?

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#5 chris bangma

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:08 PM

As we had told you, send it in, and we will repair it.
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#6 Brad Smith

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:34 AM

Chris,

 

Justin is having issues with a brand new monitor. The downtime for him to send his monitor back is likely to be at least 2 weeks. Since the issue has been present from brand new, and you have acknowledged it is a design/build issue, you should look at supporting him better than that.

 

I'm still waiting for a response as to how you are going to fix the overheating issue WRT to my monitor, so far no response.

 

We pay premium prices for premium products because we can't afford to have down time. It would be appropriate to send him a replacement monitor, to cover him whilst you are repairing his monitor. 

 

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the digital level that was a major reason I decided to go with a Cinetronic monitor when I upgraded to SDI.

 

At this rate I'm looking to another brand monitor to purchase, there's no point in purchasing another Cinetronic, if reliability, support and communication from you is the level we are currently receiving.


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#7 chris bangma

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:16 AM

At this point the only option is to send it back for repair.  As we still owe monitors to people who ordered quite some time ago, it would be unfair to them to delay their orders any longer, by sending a monitor out for exchange.  The monitor would take less than a week to come back for repair and be returned.  As for the levels, a number of them are going out next week.  We acknowledge that things have not always gone as smoothly as planned, but as a small company of only 3 people, we have shipped over 200 monitors worldwide in the past 3 years.  We are growing, and going though the growing pains as well, and hopefully all is for the best in the end.  As we have mentioned before, this has taken far more than we ever anticipated, but we will see it through to its completion.


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#8 Jens Piotrowski SOC

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:17 AM

Chris,

 

Justin is having issues with a brand new monitor. The downtime for him to send his monitor back is likely to be at least 2 weeks. Since the issue has been present from brand new, and you have acknowledged it is a design/build issue, you should look at supporting him better than that.

 

I'm still waiting for a response as to how you are going to fix the overheating issue WRT to my monitor, so far no response.

 

We pay premium prices for premium products because we can't afford to have down time. It would be appropriate to send him a replacement monitor, to cover him whilst you are repairing his monitor. 

 

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the digital level that was a major reason I decided to go with a Cinetronic monitor when I upgraded to SDI.

 

At this rate I'm looking to another brand monitor to purchase, there's no point in purchasing another Cinetronic, if reliability, support and communication from you is the level we are currently receiving.

Hi Brad,

 

as frustration as this is, it's not Chris' fault that Justin is living so far away. It is the responsibility of the buyer to make the decision as to what to buy from where and whom. I consider this every time I make a purchase.

 

As for the downtime. As a professional operator one should have at least one spare monitor handy...

 

And this could have already all been resolved if the monitor was sent in right away....

 

my 2 cents


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#9 Justin Besser

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:51 PM

Jens,

it is not Chris' fault that I live so far away, you are correct, but it is thier responsibility to have provided me with a working monitor without fault, I tried to call and email in regards to who is going to pay for the shipping to get this sorted, but no-one responds to me. I did consider that this would be purchased from overseas, but I did not forsee all the problems I've had with this supplier.

I deal with companies that are based in that side of the world, small companies too, GPI Pro being the perfect example, that have quite possibly the best customer service i've ever had, even compared to local suppliers, whenever there has been an issue, straight on to it, great communication, and sorting out shipping if there has been something they have overlooked . so I dont accept the excuse , "we are a small company based far away from you" .. 

Also I have had a couple of jobs on so not had a chance to send the monitor back yet, and you are right, as a professional I should have a backup monitor, this is my first steadicam purchase, so it cant be expected that I have backups of everything, I am still building my kit and I sink all of my time and money back into steadicam ..

I had spent a lot of money on monitor hire initially whilst waiting for the cinetronic that could of been spent on a backup monitor, but the response i kept getting from film-stuff was "1-2 more weeks" so I kept holding out .. that turned out to be a few months, which left me with a hire monitor that cost the same to hire as purchasing the new one..

All i want was someone to talk to me on the phone, I am sick of delayed/no emails, sick of answering machines that never get responded to, sick of excuses.. 

I hate talking about this on a public forum, but this seems the only way to illicit some kind of response .. I want a manufacturer to stand by their claim "the new standard", "our next great achievement" .. well those things require great customer service too..

I will actually be sending it in this week, there is a gap in work that allows me to do that, presumably at my own cost now, but I need this fixed


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#10 chris bangma

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:14 PM

Justin,  It wasnt only until recently that you may have had a problem that was a warranty item.  As far as the 8 pin not being wired for a Cinelive, we explained this numerous times, and that we wired the monitor with a separate lemo for tally for a reason, because there is no standard for tally wiring.  Your other complaint was for the Anton Bauer back, not fitting properly.  Sorry this didnt fit, this is the back we use, if you would like to take it off and put a genuine AB back on there, you are welcome to do so.  We also do not charge the $400 that Transvideo charges for an AB back.  The simple fix is to put a little velcro on the AB back, like everyone does, OEM or not to take up any play in the back.  As for the responses, when have you left a message when you have called?  If you do not leave messages how are we to know.  Sometimes you just need to be a little realistic about gear.  I have spent over $30,000 on my Preston system, and even though I know Howard Preston very well, he will not send me a new Preston if I have a problem with mine.  Also speaking of Prestons, they currently have a 4 month waiting list to get system from them, so having to wait for professional gear is nothing new.  If you would rather we be like the TV Logics of the world, who could care less about anything you say, then so be it.  We are a couple guy trying to give the steadicam community something better to work with, but at this point with all the negative comments whats the point? 

 

The whole Steadicam community does a disservice to itself by its constant negative comments about everything.  I guess the people here dont realize that suppliers and other companies read these forums, and see what a bitter, negative community this really is.  I have heard comments from my suppliers about this forum, and peoples comments here, and even our suppliers question why we deal with the steadicam community.  They comment that there are other fish in the sea, so why not go after those.  I worked as a Steadicam assistant for over 10 years, attended the CP steadicam workshop 20 years ago, was trained by Jimmy Muro (who I also pulled focus for on occasion), and was there when George Paddock introduced the first donkey box, the beginnings of the Pro Sled.  I enjoy working with Steadicam, and when asked by a Steadicam operator to build a better monitor, I did the best I could, and created the Gen1.  Not being happy with the Gen1, even though many other were, I sought out to build the Gen2, something even better.  This has taken well over the initial estimates of time and money, but we stuck with it, and have over a quarter million dollars invested so far.  Many times we have considered whether it was all worth it, and whether there was a light at the end of the tunnel or not.  So far we have stuck it though, and shipped a product.  Yes, it may have some flaws, and may need some things finished up, but the alternative was to close the doors, declare bankruptcy, and say F*** it.

 

When I look back at when I first proposed to build a Steadicam monitor, to meet operators needs, most of the comments I received were negative.  People saying "oh, not another" etc...  Its this attitude that discourages people from trying to make anything better for this community.  If they constantly are told they cant do it, or it is not right, then why even try?  I have poured a large portion of my life into this product, and are seriously considering whether it was worth it.  This has taken tolls on our personal lives, and finances as well.  We chose to create a monitor for the steadicam market, and we can just as easily choose to stop making it as well.  Then you can be left with the companies who do not care, since the steadicam market is just a drop in the bucket to them.

 

Its Ironic that this forum just perpetuates the worst of the Steadicam world.  The people who post the most on this forum have the least experience in the field, and the people who post the least have the most experience.  I guess it just boils down to those who sit at home on their A** all day with no work are the ones posting, and the ones who are working are too busy post.  Needless to say, it doesnt portray a good image to anyone.  If the goal of this forum is to squash any innovation, or anyone's hopes of aspiring to anything, then it has succeeded.

 

I often think I should go back to the day job, standing next to people like Michael Bay all day, listening to him scream and shout, because it is less stressful than dealing with the people here...


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#11 Justin Besser

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:47 AM

Chris,

 

its only when people write something in a public forum that you respond, and with some vigor this time it seems .. 

this is not an isolated incident related only to me .. I am not attacking you.. you have a business, selling monitors, you chose to get into that business for a business decision, not out of the good grace of your heart, you are not doing me a favor here, you are collecting my money in a transaction and supplying a piece of equipment, which in my best knowledge at the time, I decided to go with you as a supplier .. 
This is an issue that has come up many times here on this forum, people trying to get a response, and I am sure many more times with people who are not prepared to bring it up in public, and I didn't want to, and yet I feel I am forced to simply to get some response .. 

The previous issus I had, I dont want to harp more on them, nowhere in this thread I have mentioned these issues, but seeing as you have, I was extremely disappointed  but have given up talking about them because I didn't feel we could come to a reasonable conclusion. you had told me, yes, I have someone local to you that may be able to fix the problems, and I will send you out a new battery plate, but that soon changed to, "thats the battery plate we supply, deal with it, put some velcro on it" (which I have done, and it solves the problem, but doesn't fix the fact you supplied something that doesn't properly work) & also "we dont have anyone local to you to fix the tally issue" (which in the meantime I have had someone make the correct cables for it, to solve this problem) .. which basically says to me, its your problem now, and not ours .. and mind you, all of that came after multiple, multiple emails trying to get some answer at all .. 

I have no problem waiting with gear , but I do have a problem with someone telling me, ready in 2 weeks, ready in 2 weeks, etc .. for a few months .. own up to the fact that you weren't going to be ready, and make a realistic statement about when it will be, better to say, "ready in 3 months", then be ready in 2 .. yes, when you buy a preston, you wait for 4 months, but they dont spin to you and tell you it will be ready sooner .. 

I am not bitter, I am not negative, this forum is a great community to share ideas and express concerns and opinions .. this is my real experience with a supplier that I have had a transaction with, I am not lying or putting negativity out there into the world for no reason, I am here trying to get something resolved that should be done via the email or phone but unfortunately I have to bring on this forum because you choose to only respond to me here ..
I have tried calling, many many times, never have I got an answer, except for that one time where, yes, I had run into a severe software issue and you answered your mobile ..I call during business hours and its reasonable to think that if I call 10 times that once I would be able to get a person rather than having to leave a message, I have called and left messages too, but never had them responded to.. 

I understand you have fantastic at what you do, you have invested time and energy into the steadicam community in an assisting role, operator and now manufacturer, I commend you for that and I hope to have some success in my career too.
my situation is I saved up for years, worked and assisted and given up so much to be able to do this job, I have invested my life savings into equipment which will hopefully take me through my career, there is a certain expectation, wether I am buying something from some major brand name corporation, or mum and dad homejob down the road that when I invest my money into their business I am getting something of quality, good customer service, and no bullshit, simply with that I am happy and will broadcast that positive message to the world too ..

Your issues here would be resolved with some great customer service, or getting someone in that can provide that element to your business.. 

I simply want my monitor fixed, this is currently a warranty issue, I need to chat to a real person about this to see how to move forward on this..


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#12 Justin Besser

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:19 AM

and I am quite offended that you would imply I sit around on my arse posting negative comments on this forum, I have much much better things to do, I am busy out there working and doing a multitude of other useful activities than being an internet troll.. I again re-enforce the statement I simply have come to the forum to solve an issue that hasn't been able to be resolved in another way.. 
AS for quashing innovation, again, I am offended you would post that in relation to this post .. I invested my money in your product, I support 'innovators' and small business, those who go out on a limb to try and improve something, I want you to succeed as it would of been a stupid business decision if I bought a product from someone with the intention of destroying their brand leaving me with no support behind that product at all.


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#13 JobScholtze

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

wow, just wow. ( now back on my arse again )


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#14 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:41 AM

Wow is right. I bought a Gen2 monitor despite the negative postings with the faith that Chris would work out the issues. I liked the form factor of this monitor and am happy that I got it. I experienced an issue with the monitor, brought it out to Chris and he fixed it while I went off and played 18 holes. Been working flawlessly ever since.

His is a company without deep pockets in a niche market and I believe there has to be some understanding of that. Communication is always a good thing, perhaps that could be improved. But Chris has always gotten back to me in a timely fashion the few times I have contacted him.

 

Justin, if I read between the lines here, this seems to be an issue about who will pay for shipping. For me it's not worth getting worked up about a couple of hundred dollars. Better to have my monitor fixed and able to work again than be angry and have something that does you no good. And work out that expense later. As far as the battery plate...come on, a strip of velcro and you are good to go; I have the same issue with OEM AB plates. Just deal with it. Small issues compared to real life.


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#15 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

Justin,

 

Hate to say it man but I see a failure on your part.  have a problem with your primary, you pull out your backup and get your primary fixed, you don't sit on it and bitch that it doesn't work. Preston doesn't cover shipping, so again I'm not sure where the problem is. They will fix it at their cost, you just need to get it there

 

AB Plates? they ALL have slop in them, they were designed to be used vertically mounted on the back of an ENG camera, 3 dots of velcro and you're good to go. we ALL do it.  

 

Cinetronic provides a tally connector on their monitor, nowhere do they say that they will provide the tally cable or interface. Transvideo does the same thing so I'm not understanding your issue.

 

I get that you are just starting out and that you are trying to build up your kit, we have ALL been there, you're not special in this regard. Now step up and understand that you have responsibilities in these matters and that's part of doing business.


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