Jump to content



Photo

Zephyr Vest Fitting


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Craig Kovatch

Craig Kovatch

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Hello all.

 

Let me first state that I did take the two-day workshop a couple of years ago, but i'd like some advice on wearing the vest.  Everything I read states that the vest should be snug around the hips so the weight is taken down through the operators legs.  I've been wearing mine a bit higher around my waist. Not entirely around my waiste, but more so than my hips.   I find if I wear the vest around my hips, I don't have enough clearance for my legs.  It's not bad on a level surface, but completely useless for stairs.

 

The reason I'm asking is it feels like my back is "compressing".  I'd like to add additional weight to the sled, but my back tires very quickly.  I'm thinking either the vest is too tight, or the spar is in the wrong position.   Should the vest be more snug around the hips or shoulders?

 

Thank you.


  • 0

#2 Victor Lazaro

Victor Lazaro

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1231 posts
  • Sunnyside Queens, NY

Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

Hi, I hope someone with more knowledge than me will jump in on this as well. I've been wearing it on the hips without too many issues with stairs but its true that sitting in the vest will be a bit hard. The vest should not compress your chest. You still need to breathe. Maybe your back pain is due to a bad posture (leaning forward or backward, guitar hero... There's a great chapter about that in the operator's handbook) or a setting on your socket block your rig should not fly away from you when you are in your operating position). Also make sure that your vest is aligned properly on your body. The spar should be straight up, even when the rig is on you.
  • 0

#3 Craig Kovatch

Craig Kovatch

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:26 PM

Thanks for the reply Victor. I think my vest may be on too tight in the chest area. I try to make sure it doesn't shift around when I'm operatiing.   It could also be my posture.  I can't even take the first step without the rig moving in an undesirable way. I've spent the better part of the last two years just figuring out how to walk.  Still don't have it down.   Time for another workshop me thinks.

 

I've read that chapter in the operators handbook a number of times, but I think I need to set up a camera and get footage of my technique.  Or lack there of.


  • 0

#4 Alan Rencher

Alan Rencher

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1091 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:11 PM

Craig, Sometimes I find myself using bad posture because the socket block is slightly out of adjustment, and my body is trying to compensate.

 

there is a little maneuver that I do sometimes to test if my socket block is adjusted properly: With correct posture, put the rig out in front of you. It should rest in one position, and you should be able to control where it goes using only your hips. If the rig goes away from you, adjust (tilt) the socket block in the opposite direction the rig is going. Once it's resting in front of you, you should be able to walk around it without it moving away from you. This movement will exaggerate any imbalance, and if it's not adjusted properly, it will float away. From there adjust the socket block again. 

 

Hope this helps.


Edited by Alan Rencher, 20 June 2013 - 11:12 PM.

  • 0

#5 Chris Van Campen

Chris Van Campen

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

Interesting topic, as I haven't made it to a workshop yet. This fall hopefully.

 

Anyway, is it easy to quantify the ratio of weight that should be supported by the shoulder section versus on the hips? Is it 60/40 shoulder to hip, 50/50 etc? 

 

I've experimented a lot with the spar length adjustment to that end, and trying to dial in the top / shoulder sections to be pretty darn snug, based on the assumption that the tighter up top would lead to less vest rotation and a larger float point. But too tight becomes uncomfortable pretty quickly. I've already removed the pad that sits right on your sternum which helps a lot. 

 

Bottom is less of a problem for me since I've been staying up higher than I did initially. Like it says in the book, you should be able to walk up stairs without issues. 

 

I used to use a Universal Model 2, and I could never get that vest adjusted right. Had to add foam up top. So the Zephyr vest is a VAST improvement since way back when...


  • 0

#6 Mark Schlicher

Mark Schlicher

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 776 posts
  • Nashville, TN

Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:30 PM

Someone (I think it was Peter Abraham) once suggested to me that ideal was about 60%-70% on hips and 30-40% on shoulder.


  • 0

#7 Chris Van Campen

Chris Van Campen

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

Thanks Mark!


  • 0

#8 Jerry Holway

Jerry Holway

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 737 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

Use a mirror (or a camera and a monitor) (or both!) to be sure you are standing with you back straight (vertical, with you shoulders over you hips). Set you threads so the rig floats next to you. Adjust the spar length and the should straps so that you are comfortable - very little weight on the shoulders, and with almost no torque, with the rig close to your body. The torque and weight will increase as the rig is pushed away from you.

 

Jerry


  • 1

#9 Chris Van Campen

Chris Van Campen

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 140 posts

Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

Use a mirror (or a camera and a monitor) (or both!) to be sure you are standing with you back straight (vertical, with you shoulders over you hips). Set you threads so the rig floats next to you. Adjust the spar length and the should straps so that you are comfortable - very little weight on the shoulders, and with almost no torque, with the rig close to your body. The torque and weight will increase as the rig is pushed away from you.

 

Jerry

 

Thanks as well, Jerry...


  • 0

#10 Craig Kovatch

Craig Kovatch

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:29 AM

Thanks for all of the input.  Jerry, when you mention "very little weight on the shoulders", do you mean  the shoulder straps should not be as tight? I've been keeping the chest and shoulder straps pretty tight.   I put the vest on tonight and made the waist tighter than I normally would, but kept the chest straps a bit looser. I made sure the vest didn't slide around as I was doing the line dance.  I noticed a real difference.

 

Alan, do mean walk AROUND the rig, or walk around WITH the rig.  I wasn't sure.

 

One more question... When practicing, I will sometimes let go of the rig at the end of a move  just to see of everything is still in balance.  Quite often at this point the rig will either move towards or away from me.  This tells me I've lost balance at some point during the move.  Are you guys still in perfect balance at the end of the move?


  • 0

#11 Victor Lazaro

Victor Lazaro

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1231 posts
  • Sunnyside Queens, NY

Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:29 AM

If the rig moves away or towards you at the end of a move, it means that you are not standing straight. the movement of the rig (away toward from you and right/left) is guided by the position of the socket block, connected to the center spar of the vest, connected to your chest. so keep you back bone straight ant the rig will stay put. lean on it and it will run away from you.


  • 0

#12 Jerry Holway

Jerry Holway

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 737 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:54 AM


 

Alan, do mean walk AROUND the rig, or walk around WITH the rig.  I wasn't sure.

 

One more question... When practicing, I will sometimes let go of the rig at the end of a move  just to see of everything is still in balance.  Quite often at this point the rig will either move towards or away from me.  This tells me I've lost balance at some point during the move.  Are you guys still in perfect balance at the end of the move?

 

Always in balance! otherwise it wont't fly as well or be as steady or you will have fewer choices for tweaking the frame.

 

I suggest that you never walk around a non-moving camera; we would not do it in a shot, so it may teach you a habit that is less than useful. Conversely, always do things (practice shots or exercises) that you might do on set, and do it with the posture you would also use for normal operating. Hanging your arms by you side and moving the sled around with your hips is not how one operates.


  • 0

#13 Alan Rencher

Alan Rencher

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1091 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

I did say walk AROUND the rig. I don't learn bad habits from it. It's just a way to test my socket block adjustment in any position.


  • 0




GPI Pro Systems

rebotnix Technologies

PLC Electronics Solutions

IDX

Engineered Cinema Solutions

Boland Communications

Omnishot Systems

Varizoom Follow Focus

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

Paralinx LLC

Teradek

Wireless Video Systems

SkyDreams

PLC - Bartech

BOXX

Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS