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Arm post friction


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#1 Fabian Meller

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

Hey y'all!

As I'm consistantly trying to perfectionize things concering operating I was wondering about the arm post friction. I know it has been discussed but couldnt find anything on the board...

I've always wanted to have the arm post as freely as possible (no friction) I even lubricated it to get it perfectly smooth. Most people will say its again a personal choice thing but now I started to tighten the screw trying it with a pretty locked arm post. Other than it felt strange I couldn't really tell if the shots looked any different though I thought the starts and stops looked very solid...

Has anyone studied this one scientifically? ;-)
Or is it yet another stupid thing that bothered me the last couple of hours and I should just do something important?

Intrested in any thoughts,
Fabian
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#2 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

I tend to keep it locked. With it free you are constantly having to pull the gimbal handle back towards you. It puts a force and exertion on your hand that I don't find particularly comfortable to work with.
Logic would suggest that it's another point of isolation that would help with dissipating movement, but from what I experienced I felt that it added something more side - side as you try to keep the sled in control with your non operating hand. Almost a fight with the machine as it were.

Just my thoughts.

Rick.
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#3 William Demeritt

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

Rick,

With my PRO arm and arm post, I don't keep the screw locked, and when I'm standing up straight in my operating pose, the gimbal arm and arm post stay still unless I move them. I haven't experienced the gimbal arm wanting to travel anywhere I didn't want to put it, and that's with the screw fairly backed off (the arm post is very free to spin).

Just my experience, of course.
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#4 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

I tend to keep it locked. With it free you are constantly having to pull the gimbal handle back towards you. It puts a force and exertion on your hand that I don't find particularly comfortable to work with.



If your gimbal handle is moving the your need to determine if you have a bent wrist cap, bent arm post or your socket block needs to adjusted.

I run zero drag on my arm post and the gimbal handle stays where I put it
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#5 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

I thought this as I was writing it. I have textbook posture and can happily walk around hands free. To my knowledge this has aways happened. Most arm posts have a little bit of bend in them, maybe I have only consciously tried this with the longer ones. I agree with the points raised tho.
I shall try today and see what happens. My other suspect would be that I always have used a back mounted vest, i wonder if some twist is incurred in the arm, if only a small amount that causes this. I remember it happening with my old G-50 too.
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#6 Fabian Meller

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:08 AM

...With it free you are constantly having to pull the gimbal handle back towards you. It puts a force and exertion on your hand that I don't find particularly comfortable to work with.
Logic would suggest that it's another point of isolation that would help with dissipating movement, but from what I experienced I felt that it added something more side - side as you try to keep the sled in control with your non operating hand. Almost a fight with the machine as it were.


That is exactly what made me reconsider my preference... I think I'll just keep it locked from now on and see if anythings changing in this way.
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#7 Victor Lazaro

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

Wasn't the first Steadicam models with a locked post and people would add some Teflon to make it spin? And now you say we should go back to 1.
Maybe your socket block needs some adjustment.
On the zephyr the post spins with no way to stop it and it works great.
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#8 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

I took a video this morning. The socket block was all balanced as you can see in the video by how the sled is neatly floating. No real socket block tweaking in a comfortable range made any real difference. Posture is fine. I'm using a 6" arm post too here.


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#9 Robert Starling SOC

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

Mine freewheels as well and stays where I put it.

Robert
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#10 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

I took a video this morning. The socket block was all balanced as you can see in the video by how the sled is neatly floating. No real socket block tweaking in a comfortable range made any real difference. Posture is fine. I'm using a 6" arm post too here.



That's socket block drive
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#11 Pascal Jolink

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

No one has ever heard of socket block drive, so that by itself is not an answer. Fabian might be a novice operator...
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#12 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

I suspect it's a small amount of twist in the arm that does it. Both Eric and Robert work front mounted.

I did some experimenting the other day. I hard mounted the rig to remove the human element from the equation.
I tired mounting it in the Klassen orientation and I tried mounting it in the traditional orientation. I balanced the socket block with the arm post friction locked off. I was able to pull the handle in any direction within reason and the sled would remain floating in the area above a mark I placed on the floor. This shows that the socket block was correctly balanced. Once friction was released the handle would still flick back out.

The Klassen seemed to always try to kick back out away from what I saw. There was no amount of socket block balancing or tweaking that would change this.

I tried it in the traditional orientation albeit in goofy (I didn't flip the socket block around), and from what I saw the handle sits naturally towards the body more when released and balanced, giving the impression that its under control. I can't see how you would be able to have the handle stay anywhere you put it with the arm post loose. If you were to push the handle away from you or pull it into you the spring in the socket block assembly for front mounted operators would push the arm back out to where it sits naturally taking the gimbal handle with it. Even more so with a longer gimbal handle. I agree that with it loose it might stay in the same orientation as you are used to tho, depending on how you have the arm mounted.

Happy to have some feedback from anyone else using a back mounted harness in a "regular" position with a PRO arm.

Best,
Rick.
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#13 Ants Martin Vahur

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:43 PM

Hi!
I keep the arm post friction fairly loose. Not completely loose, but let's say somewhere around 50%. So I can easily tuck it in when I need to see the monitor from below the gimbal for example.
Then again, when there is running with one hand operating involved, I'd like to keep it quite tight, cause otherwise it'll immediately fly out and gimbal blocks the monitor and it feels strange to control it.

Ants Martin
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#14 thomas-english

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:39 AM

I operate with a Klassen and g70 and agree completely with Richard Lewis.

Bearing in mind as well I have quite a long gimble arm. Not too much longer than the XCS but certainly far longer than the PRO.

As a result I use between a full lock and 50% friction.
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#15 Mike McGowan SOC

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:27 AM

Loose but I kept it tight for a year or so at some point and it didn't really make much difference imo...
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