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Provid Iso-Elastic


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#1 Jason Williams

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Posted 26 March 2005 - 03:33 PM

I'm having a few issues when I set my rig up with the Provid arm, being Iso-Elastic, I find it quite tricky to get the balance of both bones right, does anyone have any tips on the best way to set them up? I find my arm drops when I operate, whether that's me pushing down or they're set wrong, I'm not sure, but it's damn annoying! :angry:

Thanks,

Jason
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#2 Mikko Wilson

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 07:00 AM

At the SOA workshop they taught us to first adjust the fore arm (gimble end of arm) so that it's horizontal, then set the upper arm to follow the fore arm so they move together.

- Mikko.
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#3 Jason Williams

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 03:58 PM

Mikko, thank you for your reply, something very strange happened on my rig which made me EXTREMELY worried, but also made a huge difference!

I was playing around with the rig, and the lower bone started making some strange banging noises, nothing too serious, but then there was a huge one ... followed by me putting it down very quickly!

I checked the arm over, and there doesn't seem to be any damage whatsoever, and if anything the arm works better now, it actually feels easier when booming!!

Also thank you for being the ONLY person to be interested in replying to my question - after 200 views!!! This is one reason I set up my forum. I appreciate your help and advice.

Jason
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#4 Matt Burton

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 10:13 PM

Mikko, thank you for your reply, something very strange happened on my rig which made me EXTREMELY worried, but also made a huge difference!

I was playing around with the rig, and the lower bone started making some strange banging noises, nothing too serious, but then there was a huge one ... followed by me putting it down very quickly!

I checked the arm over, and there doesn't seem to be any damage whatsoever, and if anything the arm works better now, it actually feels easier when booming!!

Also thank you for being the ONLY person to be interested in replying to my question - after 200 views!!!  This is one reason I set up my forum.  I appreciate your help and advice.

Jason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Jay man, keep up the good work ! I love your forum even tho i dont post their yet. I'm waiting till i get my rig then i'm sure i'l have many questions for the comunity. "200 views and no reply, not a big surprise their realy, think about it!
Ps i'l send you the tapes soon i promis lol.
Cheers
Matt.
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#5 Jason Williams

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 04:14 AM

Hey Matt,

Hows things going?

No worries about the tapes, as and when :)

I was just a little confused as to why no one bothered replying ... except Mikko, now I know both of you, so for me, that's helping a friend out, I just feel some of the "simpler" questions get overlooked by other members.

We all start somewhere, at some point.

Thanks!

Jay
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#6 thomas-english

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 07:53 AM

yo jason!

Provids a wicked arm, I love it. However there is a problem with the plastic washers on the hinges for the bones. Basically they are not designed big enough and there is a strong twisting force accross all the bearings. Check your bearings (real ball bearings) on the bones! u may well have found a couple of them a broken! this is very comon on provids!!!!!! stop using the arm NOW! If the problem just got better its even possible all the little balls have fallen out and your rubbing metal against metal!

Brian Busbee... The Scotty (star treck) of steadicam hase developed a fix and a modification for this twisting problem. He does nt charge the earth and is quick. He spent weeks getting the new bearings for me because nobody would supply the "special issue" bearings" but now he can get them immediately. DO NOT USE THE ARM IF THE BEARINGS HAVE GONE!

His modification eliminates the twisting (re occuring damage) and makes the arm smoother as well......

call him on

0208 863 5666

PS sorry for not replying earlier!
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#7 Jason Williams

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 10:56 AM

Thanks Thomas, I've made Robin aware of this ... I got the Provid used from him, although the arm does seem to be working better, I will get it checked out. The lower bone had a part replaced recently that had cracked, and I've been using it since then, think it was early January when I got it back from Optex, they're awaiting upgrade parts so it's in limbo currently, but working nonetheless.

Will check out what you've advised and let you know what happens.

Jason
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#8 RobinThwaites

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 12:58 PM

Hi Jason

Been away from my desk (and computer) but back in tomorrow.
Robin
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#9 Matt Burton

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:26 PM

Hi Jason

Been away from my desk (and computer) but back in tomorrow.
Robin

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Hi robin, I'l give you a call monday 2, i need help gettin parts for my rig!
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#10 Jason Williams

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 03:11 PM

Hi Jason

Been away from my desk (and computer) but back in tomorrow.
Robin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks Robin, there's a couple of mails from me in your inbox :)

Jase
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#11 Jason Williams

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 04:54 PM

yo jason!

Provids a wicked arm, I love it. However there is a problem with the plastic  washers on the hinges for the bones. Basically they are not designed big enough and there is a strong twisting force accross all the bearings. Check your bearings (real ball bearings) on the bones! u may well have found a couple of them a broken! this is very comon on provids!!!!!! stop using the arm NOW! If the problem just got better its even possible all the little balls have fallen out and your rubbing metal against metal!

Brian Busbee... The Scotty (star treck) of steadicam hase developed a fix and a modification for this twisting problem. He does nt charge the earth and is quick. He spent weeks getting the new bearings for me because nobody would supply the "special issue" bearings" but now he can get them immediately. DO NOT USE THE ARM IF THE BEARINGS HAVE GONE!

His modification eliminates the twisting (re occuring damage) and makes the arm smoother as well......

call him on

0208 863 5666

PS sorry for not replying earlier!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thomas ... thank you, I sent some pictures to a friend of mine who is clued up better than I am and he has shown me that one of the bearings has shattered ... pictures attached. It's a good job that this all came to light, I have a job in two weeks and thus far haven't had much luck when it comes to paid jobs ... my rig always ended up being broken :(

Attached Files


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#12 Jason Williams

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 04:57 PM

....and this shows which one has gone :o

Attached Files


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#13 jay kilroy

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 08:30 PM

Gentlemen,

My company has had some problems with it's ProVid arms as well. We have actually snapped the cables, more than once. The metal at the trunion (sp?) has also snapped. We upgraded the socket block attachment to a masters type. I have heard that, that upgrade causes more torque. Do either of you have this upgrade or have you heard of this happening? Obvisously we have had this fixed but I will try to find the old pics of this, hopefully still have them. Thomas does your friend, Brian, do these upgrades to arms in the US? This will not sound right but, good to hear that others have had problems with their arms, thought we might have a defective one! :huh:

Jay
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#14 Dave Bittner

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 09:24 PM

It's my understanding that original batch of Provid arms shipped with bearings that were too weak. Later arms shipped with stronger bearings. A few years ago I posted a detailed account of my complete disassembly, cleaning and reassembly of the Provid arm I owned at the time, showing some of the design compromises made in the arm to meet the price point Cinema Products had set for the arm. (That report is gone from my files, but I'm hoping someone here saved it. Like Erwin...he saves everything!)

It's been a few years since I did the report, but I seem to remember having some issues with the selection of bearings in the various parts of the arm. I had a industrial engineer friend look at the arm, and he questioned why they went with strong bearings in someparts, and weak bearing in other parts. The bearing also seemed to gum up under load, like they were under-speced.

The Provid arm never set the world on fire. You can get the shot with it, but it earned a reputation as a stiff arm, challenging to work with compared to other arms. If I were shopping today for a low-cost arm I would consider a used IIIa arm or a Glidecam Gold arm. Neither are iso-elastic, but in the Provid's case i think the iso-elasticity combines with the overall stiffness of the arm and fights you as an operator. The single-spring design of the Provid arm is one of those things that looks really good on paper, but cost considerations kept them from using high-quality bearings that would have realized the full potential of the design. (As for bearings, CP had a really bad track record with them...there were, as i recall, two revisions to the bearings used in the Masters arms. Expensive upgrades. Caused a lot of ill-will, to have your $20K arm need a $7K upgrade because it was designed wrong...)

Anyway, just my opinion...your mileage will surely vary...
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#15 thomas-english

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 03:02 AM

yeah this problem as mr pixel said is due to underspacing... as in :

On the photo jason marked the joint above the damaged bearing there is a plastic washer or spacer. You ll notice there is also a bit of space as well. This is where the twisting starts and happens accross the whole arms bearings and this is where Brian modifies.

Like you jason, Its the same bearing that went on mine. exactly the same!

Speak to brian and he ll explain to you his mod, its simple but i don t want to go around giving away brian s hardwork/discovery away because its not my place to. Im sure it won t cost much at all.

Since the mod I used my arm 3 to 4 days a week on jobs and randomn days practise and its been absolutley no problem. Its quite clear the twisting accross the arm is not there anymore.

He does work on steadicam arms (as well as loads of other film engineering) for people all over the world, I know that gnespolo has had stuff done by him. I vouch for him as an incredibly honest and good engineer. It would be no problem to post him your arm from anywere, let him sort it out and send it back. Im in there quite often. He s really sorted me out over time so I only have good things to say about him.

He does a lot of work on mk-v stuff and we know how well thats all engineered.

I think he also does a mod. so that you can use regular socket blocks and gimbals, Which is what I have. klassen + provid + mk-vsled (as well as another arm)

P.S. I still love the pro-vid arm, I got it out for the first time in ages on a DVX100+PStechniks + Anamorphic lenses and ...... I still love it
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