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Very interesting new device from the makers of the Russian Arm


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#1 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:28 AM

https://www.youtube....&v=W0DM7e97Mwo#!

From Filmotechnic - the makers of the Russian Arm and the Flight Head.
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#2 quincy paglaro

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:13 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W0DM7e97Mwo#!

From Filmotechnic - the makers of the Russian Arm and the Flight Head.




Russian arm is great but that demo is truly unbearable.
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#3 Chris Callarman

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:07 PM


https://www.youtube....&v=W0DM7e97Mwo#!

From Filmotechnic - the makers of the Russian Arm and the Flight Head.




Russian arm is great but that demo is truly unbearable.


I'm sorry you had to suffer, but while not perfect I would hardly call the demo unbearable. It shows what the system is capable of and the shots are fairly decent.
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#4 William Demeritt

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:34 PM

I'm sorry you had to suffer, but while not perfect I would hardly call the demo unbearable. It shows what the system is capable of and the shots are fairly decent.


I wouldn't call it "unbearable" but I also wouldn't call those shots "fairly decent". If you know what your client is looking for, and those shots are adequate, then sure bring out the Russian Pole Vault.

However, to my eye, there was excessive roll at the head itself similar to the pendulum effect we get with bottom-heavy rigs. Around 00:56, you can see the head wobble as the device moves over rough terrain and the driver varies his speed.

Also, having the segway rider operate just the boom arm while a camera operator uses joysticks means unless they're in constant communication, or have done numerous rehearsals, they're fighting each other while trying to work together. 01:12 into the video, you see a roundy boom down tilt up go terribly wrong when the remote head operator and the driver realize she's going too far left and try to compensate. Quick pan left on both the boom and the head looks like an overcorrection, and the head operator quickly over-anticipates the headroom.

I know, a lot of this could be operator error, and in the right hands maybe it could shine? However, as for this demo, it makes me think the head itself is too loose and not properly counterbalanced to fight the pendulum effect roll. Also, operating the head with two joysticks only exaggerates these effects, which to me makes it a substandard tool.
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#5 Chris Callarman

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:41 PM


I'm sorry you had to suffer, but while not perfect I would hardly call the demo unbearable. It shows what the system is capable of and the shots are fairly decent.


I wouldn't call it "unbearable" but I also wouldn't call those shots "fairly decent". If you know what your client is looking for, and those shots are adequate, then sure bring out the Russian Pole Vault.


I stand by fairly decent! However, shortcomings of the system aside, the demo would benefit from an edit down to the most bestist, fairly decent shots. ;)

I guess my real point is that I am not a fan of the trashing of other peoples work when, in my opinion, such a harsh critique is not merited.
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#6 William Demeritt

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

If editing saves that demo video, and someone did rent it on set only to be utterly embarrassed by the performance, you'd better believe it would receive a far more spectacular "trashing" than Quincy's one line response.

On the other hand, I think the internet has a tendency to make people speak in exaggerations, and reviews or criticisms bear this worse than most. Did we "suffer" through the video? Not really.

However, the system has clear problems and weaknesses. Perhaps framing the criticism better is wise, but the core sentiments are accurate: this device does not perform to the levels and standards we expect.
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#7 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:59 PM


I'm sorry you had to suffer, but while not perfect I would hardly call the demo unbearable. It shows what the system is capable of and the shots are fairly decent.


I wouldn't call it "unbearable" but I also wouldn't call those shots "fairly decent". If you know what your client is looking for, and those shots are adequate, then sure bring out the Russian Pole Vault.

However, to my eye, there was excessive roll at the head itself similar to the pendulum effect we get with bottom-heavy rigs. Around 00:56, you can see the head wobble as the device moves over rough terrain and the driver varies his speed.

Also, having the segway rider operate just the boom arm while a camera operator uses joysticks means unless they're in constant communication, or have done numerous rehearsals, they're fighting each other while trying to work together. 01:12 into the video, you see a roundy boom down tilt up go terribly wrong when the remote head operator and the driver realize she's going too far left and try to compensate. Quick pan left on both the boom and the head looks like an overcorrection, and the head operator quickly over-anticipates the headroom.

I know, a lot of this could be operator error, and in the right hands maybe it could shine? However, as for this demo, it makes me think the head itself is too loose and not properly counterbalanced to fight the pendulum effect roll. Also, operating the head with two joysticks only exaggerates these effects, which to me makes it a substandard tool.


As I understand it, this is a work in progress (I may be wrong), and the clip has been put together by the guys at Filmotechnic. I didn't mean for people to appreciate this as a showreel of someones operating skills. As far as the segway rider operating the boom arm while the camera op uses joysticks - thats how a grip operates a crane with an operator at the wheels. Has worked well for many years.
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#8 James Davis

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:55 AM

It's an interesting idea, but having played with the tango at a demo a while back, I think Tiffen have nailed the concept bang on, it felt very much like operating a steadicam, very intuitive, they just need to work on upping the payload capacity of it then it will be a fantastic tool to have around I reckon.
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#9 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:42 AM

It's an interesting idea, but having played with the tango at a demo a while back, I think Tiffen have nailed the concept bang on, it felt very much like operating a steadicam, very intuitive, they just need to work on upping the payload capacity of it then it will be a fantastic tool to have around I reckon.


No doubt ...

I feel this has potential more in places where it could replace a crane on insert car. More like a crane arm with stabilised head for cramped quarters . Action sequences in alleyways etc. The Segway rider only has to worry about positioning the camera in space and staying alive. The framing can be done by someone in a more isolated position. Dolly Grip and Operator.
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#10 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:48 AM

An alternate platform to this ...

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#11 William Demeritt

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:14 AM

As far as the segway rider operating the boom arm while the camera op uses joysticks - thats how a grip operates a crane with an operator at the wheels. Has worked well for many years.


I understand that, but generally the grip operating the crane and the camera operator at the wheels have 1) a few rehearsals to nail the beats, and/or 2) the ability to communicate during the shot (set the remote head station close to the jib base, get both on their own walkie channel, etc).

If a driver is riding the segway and operating the boom arm with both hands while moving, that's a lot of things to concentrate on. To then also be thinking about what the camera operator is saying, giving him feedback, etc, seems like more opportunity to compromise the shot.
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#12 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

In the previous picture I attached, I am the Grip on the bucket end of the Techno15. I have a headset talk back to the operator, whose wheels are rigged in a BMW thats chasing behind us so the Libra transmission holds. We have perfect communication whilst barrelling down streets at 100 kmph. Thats the operator in the picture :)

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#13 William Demeritt

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

In the previous picture I attached, I am the Grip on the bucket end of the Techno15. I have a headset talk back to the operator, whose wheels are rigged in a BMW thats chasing behind us so the Libra transmission holds. We have perfect communication whilst barrelling down streets at 100 kmph. Thats the operator in the picture :)


Very cool, good thing you had the headset. Now tell me, how would you fare if you were the grip on bucket and and you were driving the car at the same time? That's what the Segway driver is doing.
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http://www.wbd3.com


#14 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:23 PM


In the previous picture I attached, I am the Grip on the bucket end of the Techno15. I have a headset talk back to the operator, whose wheels are rigged in a BMW thats chasing behind us so the Libra transmission holds. We have perfect communication whilst barrelling down streets at 100 kmph. Thats the operator in the picture :)


Very cool, good thing you had the headset. Now tell me, how would you fare if you were the grip on bucket and and you were driving the car at the same time? That's what the Segway driver is doing.


Sure, but because someone else is operating, his task loading is reduced.

The analogy was brought up in response to this point made earlier ...

"Also, having the segway rider operate just the boom arm while a camera operator uses joysticks means unless they're in constant communication, or have done numerous rehearsals, they're fighting each other while trying to work together."
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#15 Dean Smollar

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

As I understand it, this is a work in progress (I may be wrong), and the clip has been put together by the guys at Filmotechnic. I didn't mean for people to appreciate this as a showreel of someones operating skills.


Here's where I slightly disagree with you Sanjay. In the case of a piece of gear like this, the operator's performance is of the highest importance in relation to the product. In my opinion, the operating in this video makes the gear's ability to perform look spotty and inconsistent. We all understand that it's a new piece of equipment still in testing phase, but mediocre sample shots do not entice potential buyers. A demo reel should be comprised of only the best footage. There are a few shots worth keeping in there, but a lot more that I would cut if it were my demo reel.
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