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Flanders Scientific 9" monitor


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#1 David Karger

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

Hey everyone,
I am looking at a Flanders Scientific 9" monitor for my Flyer LE. I have two questions. First, the max brightness on this monitor is 300 nits. Is that generally sufficient for Steadicam work or should I look elsewhere for a higher brightness monitor? Secondly, does anyone know where I can get a breakout cable that would attach from my Flyer's 9-pin connector to the new monitor's XLR (power) and BNC (SDI) connectors? Thanks! Dave
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#2 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

David,

300 NITS is very low. While numbers are not everything, most monitors we use are AT LEAST 800.
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#3 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:07 AM

David,

You will probably need to go to a cable builder who is experienced with Steadicam cables specifically. The reason is that there is more than one "standard" pin arrangement for 9-pin DIN connectors (not referring to pinouts, but actual physical placement of the pins). Terry West is your first call. (310) 621-5063.

When I owned a Flyer I searched for a pre-built cable like that, and was never able to find one.

I also second Alec's concern. The Flanders have a nice picture and great features for a general-use field monitor, but the brightness is a deal-breaker on a Steadicam, any Steadicam. Seeing the frame is the first priority. Unless you spend all your days in the studio, you will sooner or later be hosed by 300 nits. The Marshall 6.5" transflective or the 7" high-bright are much better choices, all things considered...at far less than half the price. Perhaps there are brighter alternative monitors at the Flanders price point, I don't know.
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#4 Afton Grant

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:14 AM

9 inches too! Wow. Are projection screens out of stock?
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#5 Janice Arthur

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

David;

Its not just about powering this big monitor but about weight.

Its got to weigh 3x times what the current monitor weighs.

So;

1)won't attach securely, will swivel etc (they all do.)
2)power, extra money and it may not be reasonable to get a couple of extra cables made. HD video is not in your post either right?
3)weight, will make all your setups goofy harder, because now your rig is really front heavy.
4)you'll loose lots of lifting weight of the arm that is now part of the monitor
5)might not be bright enough
6)its got to cost a bunch
7)you're spending lots of brain power and money on this process that has serious flaws when you should be just operating and practicing.
8)flyers/pilots are limited lifespan, use. Use it the way it is until you outgrown it or breake it then buy a higher end model
9) no one who buys it from you will want all those mods and won't pay what you have in it, so you're going to loose money on this investment.

I have stock rig it works fine.

Go practice or go get more clients, better way to spend your time.
(its not bad to try but this is not maybe a good effort but keep thinking.)

JA
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#6 David Karger

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:49 AM

David,

You will probably need to go to a cable builder who is experienced with Steadicam cables specifically. The reason is that there is more than one "standard" pin arrangement for 9-pin DIN connectors (not referring to pinouts, but actual physical placement of the pins). Terry West is your first call. (310) 621-5063.

When I owned a Flyer I searched for a pre-built cable like that, and was never able to find one.

I also second Alec's concern. The Flanders have a nice picture and great features for a general-use field monitor, but the brightness is a deal-breaker on a Steadicam, any Steadicam. Seeing the frame is the first priority. Unless you spend all your days in the studio, you will sooner or later be hosed by 300 nits. The Marshall 6.5" transflective or the 7" high-bright are much better choices, all things considered...at far less than half the price. Perhaps there are brighter alternative monitors at the Flanders price point, I don't know.



Mark,
I'm sure you don't remember, but I was at Showcase the day you picked up your Zephyr, asking a bunch of questions about it. Since that, I have bought my Flyer LE, and joined the forum. I really appreciate the fact that you so freely give advice to so many people in the community, and thanks for your answers to this post. Dave
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#7 David Karger

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

David;

Its not just about powering this big monitor but about weight.

Its got to weigh 3x times what the current monitor weighs.

So;

1)won't attach securely, will swivel etc (they all do.)
2)power, extra money and it may not be reasonable to get a couple of extra cables made. HD video is not in your post either right?
3)weight, will make all your setups goofy harder, because now your rig is really front heavy.
4)you'll loose lots of lifting weight of the arm that is now part of the monitor
5)might not be bright enough
6)its got to cost a bunch
7)you're spending lots of brain power and money on this process that has serious flaws when you should be just operating and practicing.
8)flyers/pilots are limited lifespan, use. Use it the way it is until you outgrown it or breake it then buy a higher end model
9) no one who buys it from you will want all those mods and won't pay what you have in it, so you're going to loose money on this investment.


I have stock rig it works fine.

Go practice or go get more clients, better way to spend your time.
(its not bad to try but this is not maybe a good effort but keep thinking.)

JA



Janice,
Thanks very much. Those are very helpful comments. I appreciate the feedback.
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#8 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:15 PM

David,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words. Janice is, as usual, dead on the money in her advice.

The Flyer standard def monitor is actually a very good little SD monitor, well-matched to the Flyer rig. 9" is too heavy, and bigger than practical for operating, and more resolution than you need for framing. If you must have a playback monitor to check focus in HD, hang up the rig and tether to video village. You don't want production hovering around your sled between takes asking to watch playback while you wear the rig...and if your monitor is TOO good, that's exactly what could happen.
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#9 David Karger

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:24 PM

David,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words. Janice is, as usual, dead on the money in her advice.

The Flyer standard def monitor is actually a very good little SD monitor, well-matched to the Flyer rig. 9" is too heavy, and bigger than practical for operating, and more resolution than you need for framing. If you must have a playback monitor to check focus in HD, hang up the rig and tether to video village. You don't want production hovering around your sled between takes asking to watch playback while you wear the rig...and if your monitor is TOO good, that's exactly what could happen.



I guess I had two reasons for wanting a different monitor. The first is by far the most important. I usually fly the 5D Mkii, and because the codec has so little latitude in post, my exposure and color temp have to be captured just about perfectly in camera. The stock monitor does not allow me see an accurate rendition of either, so I always have to unplug the Steadicam monitor cable and check the in-camera monitor whenever I change exposure or color temp (i.e. every shot). This slows me down and is just unpleasant.

Much less importantly, I also wanted a heavier monitor, because right now I am adding superclamps to my monitor arm in order to get weight up front so I can set the batteries more towards horizontal to add pan inertia. And since I also want a field monitor for tripod use, I thought the 9" would be a good dual use monitor. But I can definitely see Janice's point about size and weight being problematic. Anyway, those were my thoughts, and any comments on those would be very welcome. Thanks again. Dave
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#10 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:13 PM

David,

I experienced the same vexation when working with the Canon 7D regarding the necessity to unplug the monitor cable to check exposure and color temperature. I'm now using a Marshall Transflective with an HDMI input on a Pilot and a Flyer LE with the 7D. I run the cable down the front of the rig to get a very clean Hi Def image with rather accurate exposure and color temp' information (providing I'm looking at the monitor at a 90 degree angle). This is particularly beneficial with the 7D as it supplies a hi def' image even when the camera is recording (which I believe the 5D can only do in stand by). This may not be the solution you're seeking but it's worked for me on shoots for which I need to function as both Steadicam Op' and videographer. You could also mount the Marshall on the top of your rig, to confirm the image in hi def', and then go out of Marshall in SD and connect to the BNC at the top of the sled to have an image on the regular monitor at the base of the sled for framing purposes.
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#11 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

The Marshall 6.5 is a good choice...as is the 800 nit 7" Marshall. The 7" is larger less expensive and 16x9 vs. 4x3, and the HDMI version has a DSLR resize function.

The 6.5 is the hands-down winner in daylight, and that may tip it for you, depending on how often you find yourself shooting in sunlight.
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#12 Bryan Fowler

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

Much less importantly, I also wanted a heavier monitor, because right now I am adding superclamps to my monitor arm in order to get weight up front so I can set the batteries more towards horizontal to add pan inertia.


Hi Dave.

Also, check out the TVlogic monitor http://goo.gl/3Zqqq It's not much brighter, but If I remember correctly it's as bright as the Flyer monitor. With a hood it could work.
It has HDMI, and HDMI to SDI conversion. less than 1/5 lbs. -- use it on the rig, or take it off for other jobs.

As for adding weight to adjust inertia. that's smart. I went to a tire repair shop and got several lbs of lead from them. (it was used, and free) hammered them straight and wrapped them in black tape. Put velcro on them and I could add them to any surface. It's not ideal, but if you have a static monitor and battery it helps. (EFPs were like that) And it looks better than a silver clamp. =)

Hope that helps some.
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#13 David Karger

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:13 AM

Much less importantly, I also wanted a heavier monitor, because right now I am adding superclamps to my monitor arm in order to get weight up front so I can set the batteries more towards horizontal to add pan inertia.


Hi Dave.

Also, check out the TVlogic monitor http://goo.gl/3Zqqq It's not much brighter, but If I remember correctly it's as bright as the Flyer monitor. With a hood it could work.
It has HDMI, and HDMI to SDI conversion. less than 1/5 lbs. -- use it on the rig, or take it off for other jobs.

As for adding weight to adjust inertia. that's smart. I went to a tire repair shop and got several lbs of lead from them. (it was used, and free) hammered them straight and wrapped them in black tape. Put velcro on them and I could add them to any surface. It's not ideal, but if you have a static monitor and battery it helps. (EFPs were like that) And it looks better than a silver clamp. =)

Hope that helps some.



Thanks Bryan,
Good to hear from you. Really enjoyed NAB. We had a shoot right near your house the next week with Scott.
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#14 RonBaldwin

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

As for adding weight to adjust inertia. that's smart. I went to a tire repair shop and got several lbs of lead from them. (it was used, and free) hammered them straight and wrapped them in black tape. Put velcro on them and I could add them to any surface. It's not ideal, but if you have a static monitor and battery it helps. (EFPs were like that) And it looks better than a silver clamp. =)

Hope that helps some.


I know this subject has been talked about before, but I still have trouble wrapping my little brain around adding dead weight to a steadicam. Back in the dark ages we had to that, but today with so many power and accessory options available, why not add an extra battery or a useful item such as a recorder, cup holder, or ...? Maybe even consider modifying the back of the sled so the battery can go back farther?

It's obvious that the mods for the extra batt/wiring or lengthening the fore/aft capabilities of the sled will cost more than fishing weights, but there are other, dare I say, sexier solutions to consider.

Or maybe I am just missing something?
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#15 Bryan Fowler

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:59 AM

Yep, It's a valid point Ron.

For me it did, and does come down to what I need, and what it cost.

Lead is small, cheap (free) and on the backside of a monitor you can't really see it. Yep, a battery would have powered my sled longer, but without major modification it would have put the weight where I did NOT need it. (speaking just for me EFP situation)

If I'm adding "dead" weight for the point of inertia, (one might argue that the weight is "alive" serving a purpose as adding inertia, but I defiantly get your point) I want it to go where I need it, not where it would fit on the sled.

In my current situation, my archer2 can support a third battery, but only right under the post, with another adapter plate. That's not where I need or even WANT weight. (if I had a power hungry camera I might consider it...maybe)
I could buy new HCX batteries to put on the back, or get an Anton Bauer dual plate adapter, but I find that using 2 small accessory weights on the back to offset the giant monitor on the front works good for me.

I do agree with you that given the chance, put the masses where they work for you best. I just don't want to have to go buy something new and heavy just so I don't have "dead" weight.



...*thinking*...there could be a small market for dead weight that LOOKS like it's doing something! a sexy carbon fiber box with LED display and weights inside... =)
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