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Slow moves and quality of arms


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#1 Wolfgang Troescher

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 07:22 AM

Hi!

There´s a really interesting topics in Arms-Forum about quality of the G50X respecitively G70X-arms. I didn´t want to interfere in this high-prof-thread, so I startet a new topic here.

I own the Zephyr and I am really satisfied with this product (with the exception of the clamps, but that´s another topic). It flies really smooth, esecially compared to my old Glidecam-models Smooth Shooter and X-10 I used for 2 years. But if I walk very, very slow you can see a little (!) up/down movement in every step I make.

I think I need more training to compensate this, no question about it. But how much influence has the arm-type? Theoretical question: If I´d change my Zephyr arm with a G70 arm, would it be really smoother?

Wolfgang
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#2 Fabian Meller

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:06 PM

Hey Wolfgang!

I guess your talking about the common bobbling problem.
As you've already said it's mainly a matter of training.

On a side note: I've been workig with a lightweight (whispering) movcam - and after 2 years still struggeled with that problem (only when passing near objects, though)

Now I own a heavy older Sachtler rig - And the problem seemed to just disappear (mentioning that this old arm is one of the poorest ones out there)
So now I'm not sure if it's due to the weight or probably that movcam was just crap. Thus, since you have a genuine system the main issue might be yourself... (no offence ;)

What I figured out in my initial years is that you need to find the right amount of "pressure" you put in your boom hand.

Yet that's just my (little) experince.

Best,
Fabian
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#3 Matteo Quagliano

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:16 PM

Since I'm involved in the other thread, here too I'll answer.

No. Training has nothing to do with it. Regarding G70 I cannot say anything since I never try one but maybe others can tell.
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#4 Fabian Meller

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:45 PM

No. Training has nothing to do with it. Regarding G70 I cannot say anything since I never try one but maybe others can tell.


Uh? Sorry but I don't quite agree with you. As I attended the S.O.A workshop I've seen that people beeing new to Steadicam have way more bobbling in the footage than experienced ops.
By the way, I've worked there with both the G50 and the 70 and haven't had any bobbling issues with them!

Best
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#5 Matteo Quagliano

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:54 PM

Ok. Lucky you. He's speaking very slow moves, that's why I got into it. May be you didn't slow walk.

Anyway, I don't want to keep it on here, really, I don't mind. Thanks
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#6 Fabian Meller

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:41 PM

Sure, it goes for slow moves too. Cause it becomes more obvious.
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#7 James Davis

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 06:56 PM

No. Training has nothing to do with it. Regarding G70 I cannot say anything since I never try one but maybe others can tell.


Uh? Sorry but I don't quite agree with you. As I attended the S.O.A workshop I've seen that people beeing new to Steadicam have way more bobbling in the footage than experienced ops.
By the way, I've worked there with both the G50 and the 70 and haven't had any bobbling issues with them!

Best



Sure, it goes for slow moves too. Cause it becomes more obvious.



New operators generally don't control the whole rig so well, including the boom hand, once you get to a certain skill level a good arm and a good gimbal will help improve the quality of your operating especially on super slow moves more than anything else, certain arms have certain issues and all arms perform/feel different, speak to local operators/hire houses and see if you an demo a few to see the differences, I think you will be quite surprised by just how different certain arms feel.
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#8 Wolfgang Troescher

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:14 AM

Seems to be more complicated than expected :rolleyes:

However, perhaps I can solve this problem during the Steadicam-Workshop in April/May in Starnberg :) :) :)

Wolfgang
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#9 James Davis

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:39 AM

By the way, I can't speak from personal experience with regards to a zephyr, but I know that the flyer arm definitely performed best around 10-15% away from it's maximum load limit, this also gives the camera and sled a bit more inertial mass meaning that it won't feel quite as over-responsive to operator input as some of the lighter rigs can do when not so loaded up.
Also when building your cameras and accessories for the Steadicam, experiment with adding more weight and also spreading the mass of the camera build further than you normally would.

E.G. if you have a v-lock battery up top on rails powering the camera, maybe try extending the rails out to make the distance at which the load is spread longer, to compensate at the bottom you can extend the monitor and batteries out further from the sled.
Doing this will increase your pan inertia, this is a nice tool to experiment with as it can make straight tracking shots much easier to keep really smooth and it also gives the sled more resistance when panning, mostly in the start and the finish of the pan it can act to help dampen the move to make it look smoother.
This is really worth experimenting with, especially with the lighter sleds like the zephyr as it can make a big difference to how the sled handles and how it relays feedback to the operator, it is no substitute for good technique but it is a useful tool to have in your arsenal to help you tune the rig to better suit your personal operating style and to help it behave a bit more like a big rig.

Try all this as soon as you can, then let us know how you get on :)
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