Jump to content



Photo

Steadicam rental nightmare!! Help needed


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:10 PM

I hired a Steadicam Pilot a few weeks ago from a UK rental house, as I felt it was the perfect steady unit to use with the Panasonic AF101. The following notes detail the issues I have had with the rental company regarding this. I feel that the Steadicam was not in a fit state to rent, however I don't know whether I have a leg to stand on here. Can anyone tell me whether I have a case to fight here? Particularly pertaining to the ability to correctly balance the pilot. Don't even get me started on the fact they not yet had the monitor repaired, but still want to charge me for loss of earnings!!



I rented a Steadicam Pilot system under ****’s 4 day hire option, which includes 1 day for delivery, 1 day for collection and two days of use for £238.50 (including vat) I was also asked to leave a £1000 damage deposit.

The equipment was delivered to my home address by courier on the morning of the 8th November.

A preliminary check of the equipment raised some concerns, as I discovered there was no manual to assist in setting it up. I contacted **** who told me they did not provide a manual, but they would source one and email it over to me. I waited however the manual did not turn up.

Without a manual I was unable to correctly balance and set up the Steadicam, the best I could do was check all of the components were present, which according to the equipment list, they did appear to be. By the time I was able to locate a manual via the internet, I had no time to go through it as I needed to pick up more equipment on my way to the location of the video shoot in Cumbria.

On the 9th November I was filming until 4pm without the need of the Steadicam. When we wrapped, I decided to set up the Steadicam in preparation for its use the next day. The first thing I did was power up the 8” viewing monitor and it was at this stage that I discovered a hairline crack running down the screen. (This crack was not visible whilst the monitor was powered off) I immediately stopped everything and despite being in an area with no phone reception, drove to an area where I could get signal and placed a call to **** to explain I had discovered damage to the monitor.

I returned to the farm house where I were staying and attempted to continue setting up the Steadicam. It was at this stage I discovered two more problems. Firstly the arm post which connects to the gimble handle was connected by only a small nut and no washers, meaning the arm was free to move around in the join. Fortunately I managed to do a temporary repair job with a rubber washer and two aluminium ring pulls to ensure the arm sat securely without moving around. Secondly and more importantly there was no balancing stud attached to the docking bracket. According to page 4 of the Steadicam Pilot manual, the gimble handle of the Steadicam should be hooked over this stud and is the first stage of balancing the Steadicam The lack of this stud meant the Steadicam could not be statically balanced making it unusable for its intended purpose. I tried calling **** but by now it was 7pm and there was no one answering the phones.

The next day on the 10th November I was once again filming in a no reception area, however once I reached an area of signal, just before 1pm, I placed a call to **** to explain the problems I was having and also inform them that I would need to return the equipment to them rather than have it collected. They apologised for the problems I was having and confirmed it would be no problem to return the equipment myself on the evening of the 11th.

I returned the equipment to the TNT drop off address they had given me, on the evening of the 11th. Unfortunately, unbeknownst to me at that time, it appears that I had forgotten to include the metal stand for the Steadicam, as I had accidently returned it with some similar stands, to another hire company that same evening.

Once I returned home, I filled out a complaint form on the **** website, explaining the problems we had had.

After the weekend, on the morning of the 14th I received a call from **** informing me the Steadicam had been received but without the stand which would need returning as soon as possible. I was on location on a job at that point and unable to collect the stand from the other company I had accidently returned it to. I was able to collect the stand on the afternoon of the 15th and organised a courier to deliver it to **** by 9am on the 16th.

I phoned **** just after 10am on the 16th and was put through to someone called ****, who I was told deals with all matters regarding fees and damage deposits. She told me she was unaware of the complaint I had made, but would look into it and call me straight back.

By the afternoon of the 21st (5 days later) I had still not been called back, so I placed another call to ****. I spoke to **** who apologised for not getting back to me as she had been particularly busy with meetings, however she would look into the matter and get back to me.

On the afternoon of the 22nd I received an email from ****, saying she had listened to recording of the telephone conversations, however she only made reference to the first conversation regarding the manual that took place on the day of delivery and the call placed on the 9th when I reported the damage to the monitor. She went on to write that as they carefully check their equipment and the fact I did not notify them of the damage on the day of delivery, I was therefore liable for the charges and they would raise an invoice.

I promptly replied to this email, reminding **** they did not provide or email to us a manual for us to correctly check the setup of equipment, hence our lack of awareness to the damage on the screen as we had not powered it up. I also pointed out once again the two main issues we had with the condition of the Steadicam; that of the loose arm post and that of the missing balancing stud. I ended the email by reminding them of the sense of urgency there was in this matter, due to the fact they were still holding my £1000 deposit.

I had still heard nothing back from **** at about 5pm on the 23rd, so I called **** to chase the matter. I questioned the suitability for hire of a Steadicam that could not be correctly balanced. She put me through to their technical specialist **** who told me their Steadicam balancing post had never had a balancing stud on it and instead they had a workaround via which they put the gimble handle through the hole in the middle of the balancing post and balanced it this way. I explained to **** that this was completely different to the way the instruction manual showed, but he informed me the only instructions he had seen were on an old VHS tape some years ago.

Following the conversation I decided to email **** page 4 of the manual which explains how to balance the Steadicam and clearly shows that the gimble handle must be hooked over the balancing stud on the docking bracket to achieve perfect static balance.

I received an email straight back from ****, with an attached picture showing the gimble handle incorrectly pushed through the hole in the middle of the balancing post. She informed me **** had managed to balance the steadicam in this manner and that the equipment they had was the same as the day they purchased it.

At this stage I was becoming more and more concerned by ****'s attitude to this matter. I decided to place a call to the manufacturers of the Steadicam Tiffen, where I spoke to a gentleman called Robin Thwaites, their International director of sales. He confirmed that the way **** were balancing the Steadicam was not only incorrect but also potentially unsafe as it could tip over. He also confirmed the balancing post should have a stud attached and that the Steadicam would not have been sold without one! I also placed a call to the people who produce the monitor to check on the price of a replacement screen. They told me it would cost £160 + vat and that they had one in stock and could fix and return it within 24 hours.

I emailed **** and explained I had spoken to Mr Thwaites and relayed what he had said. I also reminded them that no one had addressed the fact the bolt for the arm had been loose and we had had to secure it with a washer and two ring pulls.

I had heard nothing back from **** by 3pm on the 24th, so I placed another call to **** to see what was going on. She passed me over to someone called ****, who I understood to be her boss. He told me he had been working with Steadicams for a number of years and insisted that is how their steadicam had come. He also told me steadicam as a company were unreliable and things changed with the way things are set up so often that the manual had probably changed since their version of the steadicam had been purchased. I explained that Robin Thwaites had said otherwise, so he said he would call him and check and get **** to call me back.

I got a phone call back from **** at 5pm, but instead of any mention of a call with Robin Thwaites, she told me they were waiting for their Steadicam expert to come in on Tuesday 29th and check the equipment over.

At 10am on the 25th I received a phone call from **** saying she had spoken to the company that stock the monitor and that it would take a week to get hold of a replacement screen. She told me this would cause them to lose a lot of sales and they would either need to charge me for a new screen and a weeks’ worth of potential lost rentals, which would cost me just over £1000 or a brand new monitor and a couple of days rental, which would cost around £1200. Either way **** said that as a good will gesture, she would reduce the charge to my £1000 deposit. I was immediately unhappy as I knew the monitor suppliers Proav said they had a screen in stock. I phoned Proav and lo and behold they had a screen there.

I phoned **** straight back with this news and she said she would check once again.

I tried calling **** back several times during the afternoon and was told she was either in meetings or on the phone.

I placed a phone call to Proav who told me **** had called them and booked in the monitor for repair on Monday 28th.

I sent **** another email explaining that even if we were expected to pay the costs, following the prices on their website, the most it would come to would be £385 + vat

**** emailed me once again and despite the monitor being confirmed as in stock and available to be repaired within 24 hours, the costs had now increased! The cost of replacing the screen plus lost rentals would come to £2622 + vat and the cost of a new monitor plus lost rentals would be £3102 + vat, however once again as a good will gesture they would reduce both charges to the cost of £1000, the full amount of my deposit. **** ended the email by saying I would need to need to choose one of the options to prevent further days of lost rental.

I immediately phoned the **** office but was told **** could not be reached and that I should contact her via email.

On Monday 28th I emailed **** asking for a breakdown of the claimed costs. I also phoned Proav who informed me they had not yet been sent the monitor for repair.

I then received an email from **** saying I was liable to 15 days worth of lost rentals!!



And that is everything up to date. At the very worst and I was forced to pay for the damage to the monitor. Should the rental company not have fixed the Steadicam immediately? Why am I expected to pay for so many unnecessary lost rentals? and really? Does that Steadicam sound like it was in a fit state to hire?


Thanks for your time guys. This has become a real weight upon my shoulders!

regards

Rich

(I have attached the image they sent me of the Steadicam balanced in their office)

Attached Files


  • 0

#2 Afton Grant

Afton Grant

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 908 posts
  • New York, Boston

Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:53 PM

A good lesson can be learned here about ample preparation, practice and checkout time.

Rich, I can't tell you how many times I've been talking to someone about Steadicam and I hear, "I rented one once but it didn't work," or "...I couldn't figure it out," or "...I couldn't get it balanced." And I want to make it clear, I'm not putting the fault on you in any way, but a good rule of thumb should be - If you need a manual to set up and use a Steadicam, you shouldn't be using that Steadicam. They're just not out-of-the-box, bolt-on-and-go pieces of equipment.

The best course of action would've been to set up and learn about the rig at the rental house. Ask questions there. Address any concerns you have right then and there. If that is not possible, the second best bet would be to have an experienced operator show you how to set it up and use it. If that is not possible, you should give yourself plenty of time before an actual shoot to get acquainted with the gear. A balancing pin isn't 100% necessary - especially with the Pilot. It's plenty light enough to balance right on the arm, or even just picking it up with your hands.

We don't get paid what we get paid simply because we put up the money to buy the equipment. We get paid because we spend years and years refining our skills using it.

Regarding your dealings with the rental house. There are two sides to every story. If they indeed sent you faulty equipment, of course that's bad business. However, I just don't think the information is complete enough, or do we know you enough, to make any sort of judgments regarding the company.

Best of luck.
  • 0

#3 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:00 PM

I understand there are two sides to every story Afton, hence my removing any reference to the company name.

I have used a small Steadicam like this many years ago and truly felt I would not have too much bother getting to grips with one again. I requested a manual for that very reason, as I wanted some reference to make sure I was not making a mistake. The reason I mentioned the balancing stud was to point out that this company claims their Steadicam never had one! That along with the fact the arm post was not properly connected (a fact they don't seem to want to discuss) and the monitor was cracked makes me question how carefully the equipment is checked upon return.

I think my biggest issue here is the fact they are charging me an endless amount of days in lost rentals due to this crack in the monitor, which they could have fixed within 24 hours of the Steadicam being returned. Why is it my responsibility to get them to fix it promptly? Surely the purpose of the security deposit was to enable them to do so immediately.

It has been two weeks since they received the Steadicam back from me, yet they are claiming a loss of earnings for 15 days worth of rentals almost amounting to the cost of a new Pilot system. They also didn't bother to call me back for the first 5 days!

I appreciate you don't know me from adam, but surely this is a rental horror story in anyone's books?

regards

Rich


A good lesson can be learned here about ample preparation, practice and checkout time.

Rich, I can't tell you how many times I've been talking to someone about Steadicam and I hear, "I rented one once but it didn't work," or "...I couldn't figure it out," or "...I couldn't get it balanced." And I want to make it clear, I'm not putting the fault on you in any way, but a good rule of thumb should be - If you need a manual to set up and use a Steadicam, you shouldn't be using that Steadicam. They're just not out-of-the-box, bolt-on-and-go pieces of equipment.

The best course of action would've been to set up and learn about the rig at the rental house. Ask questions there. Address any concerns you have right then and there. If that is not possible, the second best bet would be to have an experienced operator show you how to set it up and use it. If that is not possible, you should give yourself plenty of time before an actual shoot to get acquainted with the gear. A balancing pin isn't 100% necessary - especially with the Pilot. It's plenty light enough to balance right on the arm, or even just picking it up with your hands.

We don't get paid what we get paid simply because we put up the money to buy the equipment. We get paid because we spend years and years refining our skills using it.

Regarding your dealings with the rental house. There are two sides to every story. If they indeed sent you faulty equipment, of course that's bad business. However, I just don't think the information is complete enough, or do we know you enough, to make any sort of judgments regarding the company.

Best of luck.


  • 0

#4 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:43 PM

Ummmm. Needing a manual to balance and being a steadicam operator are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you are an operator and you've been to a workshop then you know how to balance. You also don't have to have the balnce pin, you can do it on the arm (I do it all the time that way walking to #1 after a lens change). The arm post is supposed to rotate

I could go on but your post is just too damn long and I just had some turkey
  • 0

#5 Mike Marriage

Mike Marriage

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 90 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:08 PM

As Afton says, there's always two sides to every story and of course rental companies must protect their kit. However, as I have had similar issues with rental companies in the past, my (layman) thoughts are based on the information you gave.

You need to check your rental contract for terms about reporting faults etc. If you are definitely not responsible for the damage to the monitor then your argument should be that you are not responsible for ANY damage charge. otherwise your argument is that the charge is too high. Even if you did exceed the time limit in the contract for reporting faults (if there is one), you would still have an argument that the fault was not apparent until later on.

The missing stud is a separate argument and I think it would justify reclaiming the entire hire fee. You have the manufacturer confirming that the equipment was incorrectly supplied and potentially dangerous. (This may also explain how the screen was cracked). This prevented you from using the equipment. It also adds weigh to your argument that the equipment was not properly checked by the company in question. Ditto in regards the arm. Yes you can balance without the stud but the stud is the "proper" way of doing it and should be there.

How did you pay the rental fee and £1000 deposit? If in cash the only recourse may be via small claims court if the company won't pay up. If on card you should look into a Chargeback. If it was me, I would be looking to reclaim 100% of hire and deposit. Keep hard copies of all evidence and recordings of all conversations, they will be required by the card company or in court.
  • 0

#6 Mike Marriage

Mike Marriage

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 90 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:12 PM

Ummmm. Needing a manual to balance and being a steadicam operator or pretty much mutually exclusive.


I also agree with Eric on that point but that is a different argument. Hopefully next time you'll hire an op! :)
  • 0

#7 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:45 PM

Hi Mike,

I'm concerned that it is in the t&cs that I may have fallen afoul.

They read as follows;




HiRental Hire Agreement

Equipment

The equipment shall remain the absolute property of HiRental at all times. All equipment is tested before shipping; it is your responsibility to check upon receipt of the equipment that it is in good working order and in an undamaged condition.

HiRental will not be responsible for any defects or deficiencies in the equipment unless immediate notification has been made by completing the following form immediately upon receipt of the equipment.

It is your responsibility to ensure the equipment on hire is suitable for the purposes you require. You shall not assign, transfer, or otherwise part with the equipment during the period of hire. We do not allow the rehire of our equipment to third parties and no cross hires of any kind are permitted.



Loss or damage to equipment

You shall be responsible for the safe keeping of the equipment throughout the hire period and shall be liable to the company for all loss of or damage to the equipment howsoever caused.

You shall be required to repackage the equipment as delivered for return to HiRental.

You shall be liable for all loss of or damage to equipment in transit.

You shall notify the company of any loss or damage to any equipment on hire immediately of such loss or damage being sustained.

You shall pay to HiRental all costs for repairs along with the daily hire charge until the item can be repaired or replaced.

If items are not returned for the avoidance of doubt these will be charged for at the replacement value along with a surcharge of an additional rental to cover the time this equipment is not available for rehire.



Limitation of Liability

If HiRental for any reason is unable to provide any equipment which is the subject of an agreement between HiRental and the hirer, HiRental will not be liable for any loss or consequential loss suffered by the hirer.



Cancellation

Any order cancelled by you within 48 hours of the date when the period of hire was to commence, you shall be liable to pay to HiRental a cancellation charge equal to and not exceeding the agreed hire charge. All other cancellations will incur a 25% administration fee or a minimum charge of £50.00



Reservation

Upon booking of equipment, by telephone, e-mail or the Internet, HiRental shall charge the rental charge. Acceptable proof of identity and these terms and conditions, signed by you must be returned via fax or E-mail before any equipment will be dispatched.

In the event of paperwork not being received and HiRental is unable to contact you, the reservation will be cancelled and the full cancellation will apply.

In the event of courier problem or error, HiRental will endeavour to deliver the equipment before 9.30am on the first paid for date of hire that being the day after the booked delivery day, we endeavour to deliver where possible on the chosen delivery day before your paid for rental period starts.

HiRental cannot guarantee delivery of goods ordered to arrive the next working day and no refund shall be made in the event of late delivery due to courier error.

HiRental will act on your behalf when booking deliveries and collections with courier companies we therefore cannot be held responsible for their non-performance.



Delivery

All hire periods include a delivery and collection day, the first day being the delivery day, and the last day being the collection day, the days between are the paid for hire days, therefore the actual paid for hire period begins the day after the delivery date, for example a three day hire includes the delivery day free, one full hire day, and the collection day free.

Any items that can not be delivered on the delivery day due to courier or other errors outside our control will be delivered on the first paid for hire day (the next working day after the scheduled delivery day).

The non supply of any individual item or items that make up an order does not forfeit the charges for other items supplied under the hire agreement.



Collection

The equipment if being collected will be arranged on your behalf with a courier company, you must retain the receipt that the courier leaves with you on collection of the equipment. Failure to provide the equipment to the courier on the agreed date will result in additional collection and hire charges. All liability for the equipment remains with the hiring parties until the safe return of the equipment to HiRental.



Payment

Payment of any monies payable to HiRental in respect of any agreement between you and HiRental shall be made to HiRental before any equipment is dispatched, if you hold an account with HiRental payment is due within seven days of the invoice being received.

Equipment not available for collection or returned late will be charged at the daily hire rate as per our website until the equipment is returned, or the replacement value settled by you.



Deposit

You will be required to leave a security deposit before any equipment will be dispatched, HiRental will secure this deposit on the same debit/credit card used for payment on the day prior to the dispatch date unless previously agreed otherwise in writing.

In the event of the funds not being available HiRental will send you an e mail notifying you that we have been unable to secure your deposit we will also try to contact you via telephone on the contact details we hold for you, If HiRental is unable to secure the agreed deposit, the reservation will be cancelled and the full cancellation charge will apply.

If media is used or not returned including tapes and CF Cards or if items are missing when the equipment is returned these will be charged to the same credit/debit card used to make the booking or deducted from your deposit.

Indemnity

You shall at all times fully indemnify HiRental, its employees, servants and agents against all actions, costs, claims, demands, proceedings or liabilities arising from or in conjunction with equipment, materials or any other services supplied to you by HiRental.




I paid for the rental via credit card. It is the same card that has the £1000 security deposit frozen on it right now.


To all that have mentioned my referral to the manual being a reason not to be operating a steadicam, I guess that is fair enough. All I can say is that I have operated one before and had no problems. This was a video for someone on a very tight budget and they just had to have that steadycam shot. I decided to go for it and still believe that if the kit had come as I was expecting and how the manual explains it should, I would have been ok. When we discovered the screen was broken and the arm was not connected properly, the lack of a balancing stud was the last straw. At the time I didn't even think about the fact I could have balanced it on the arm and that is clearly my lack of experience that is to blame.

My problem is this rental companies apparent desire to take me for everything I've got! Or rather the fact they make out that is the cost but they will do me a favour by only taking my full deposit.

My apologies if I have insulted the professional Steadycam ops here by posting on these forums with no real experience of this equipment, but in truth I did not know who else to ask and thought this might be the best place.

Kindest regards

Rich







As Afton says, there's always two sides to every story and of course rental companies must protect their kit. However, as I have had similar issues with rental companies in the past, my (layman) thoughts are based on the information you gave.

You need to check your rental contract for terms about reporting faults etc. If you are definitely not responsible for the damage to the monitor then your argument should be that you are not responsible for ANY damage charge. otherwise your argument is that the charge is too high. Even if you did exceed the time limit in the contract for reporting faults (if there is one), you would still have an argument that the fault was not apparent until later on.

The missing stud is a separate argument and I think it would justify reclaiming the entire hire fee. You have the manufacturer confirming that the equipment was incorrectly supplied and potentially dangerous. (This may also explain how the screen was cracked). This prevented you from using the equipment. It also adds weigh to your argument that the equipment was not properly checked by the company in question. Ditto in regards the arm. Yes you can balance without the stud but the stud is the "proper" way of doing it and should be there.

How did you pay the rental fee and £1000 deposit? If in cash the only recourse may be via small claims court if the company won't pay up. If on card you should look into a Chargeback. If it was me, I would be looking to reclaim 100% of hire and deposit. Keep hard copies of all evidence and recordings of all conversations, they will be required by the card company or in court.


  • 0

#8 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:59 PM

The other issue is that the gear was delivered the 8th but the crack on the monitor was discovered on the nigh of the 9th, AFTER you had signed off on everything being there. It was also the 9th that you "discovered" the balancing stud was missing "Making it impossible to balance the sled" which is not true, you can balance the sled on the arm, which you also seemed to know enough to repair from it's broken condition (Yet you can't balance with out a manual)

Dunno what to tell you other than a proper check out when you got the equipment BEFORE you traveled would have saved all this effort

Next time hire an operator
  • 0

#9 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 06:48 PM

Yes I know I didn't check the equipment properly and I'm now obviously regretting being in such a rush that day.

Regarding the fact we discovered the stud on the arm was not properly connected, I don't see why you think that means I would have known how to balance the sled on the arm.

Finally, yes I was clearly stupid to think I could use a Steadicam without being a trained operator, however I was unaware that I would need to be. I had operated one before and hadn't had problems. Lucky I guess. I did what I thought was the sensible thing and followed Tiffen's setup instructions. Was that so wrong?

The other issue is that the gear was delivered the 8th but the crack on the monitor was discovered on the nigh of the 9th, AFTER you had signed off on everything being there. It was also the 9th that you "discovered" the balancing stud was missing "Making it impossible to balance the sled" which is not true, you can balance the sled on the arm, which you also seemed to know enough to repair from it's broken condition (Yet you can't balance with out a manual)

Dunno what to tell you other than a proper check out when you got the equipment BEFORE you traveled would have saved all this effort

Next time hire an operator


  • 0

#10 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:00 PM

Regarding the fact we discovered the stud on the arm was not properly connected, I don't see why you think that means I would have known how to balance the sled on the arm.

Finally, yes I was clearly stupid to think I could use a Steadicam without being a trained operator, however I was unaware that I would need to be.



Your first sentence shows why you needed to his an operator, you're second sentence reinforced that fact
  • 0

#11 Richard James Lewis

Richard James Lewis

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 397 posts
  • London, UK

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:01 PM

Looks like a two-bit rental company that don't really take care or actually know anything about their equipment. These places do annoy me, but fortunately I don't ever have to deal with them.

With regard to their seeming incompetence when it comes to the prep and maintenance then I wouldn't let them get away with supplying the equipment in that state, but then again being a Steadicam Operator I know about this equipment and how it should set up and operate safely. If you aren't in that position, then it's not as easy to fight your corner. Especially if you didn't properly prep the gear yourself.

If you reported the broken screen to them as soon as it became obvious to you then I don't think you should be liable, but then again if it's the second days hire as far as they are concerned you could have been using it on the first date and broken it then.

You have my sympathy, but you really should check these things before you sign them off.

They are having a laugh with those proposed penalties tho.

Good luck!

RJL
  • 0

#12 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:33 PM

Eric you have been particularly rude and unhelpful and I am genuinely surprised you are a site moderator. I came here looking for help and advice and you have done nothing but repeatedly tell me I should be a trained op... I get it! I hope you don't find yourself in the position of needing help on a forum one day. You might run into someone like yourself and that would be unfortunate, but then again I guess you don't make mistakes!

Regarding the fact we discovered the stud on the arm was not properly connected, I don't see why you think that means I would have known how to balance the sled on the arm.

Finally, yes I was clearly stupid to think I could use a Steadicam without being a trained operator, however I was unaware that I would need to be.



Your first sentence shows why you needed to his an operator, you're second sentence reinforced that fact


  • 0

#13 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:47 PM

Thank you Richard. I will certainly try to fight this.

This whole experience has been a nightmare that I will not allow to happen again.

The next time I need a steadycam shot I will either get some training first, or hire in someone else who has

regards

Rich

Looks like a two-bit rental company that don't really take care or actually know anything about their equipment. These places do annoy me, but fortunately I don't ever have to deal with them.

With regard to their seeming incompetence when it comes to the prep and maintenance then I wouldn't let them get away with supplying the equipment in that state, but then again being a Steadicam Operator I know about this equipment and how it should set up and operate safely. If you aren't in that position, then it's not as easy to fight your corner. Especially if you didn't properly prep the gear yourself.

If you reported the broken screen to them as soon as it became obvious to you then I don't think you should be liable, but then again if it's the second days hire as far as they are concerned you could have been using it on the first date and broken it then.

You have my sympathy, but you really should check these things before you sign them off.

They are having a laugh with those proposed penalties tho.

Good luck!

RJL


  • 0

#14 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:10 PM

Eric you have been particularly rude and unhelpful and I am genuinely surprised you are a site moderator. I came here looking for help and advice and you have done nothing but repeatedly tell me I should be a trained op... I get it! I hope you don't find yourself in the position of needing help on a forum one day. You might run into someone like yourself and that would be unfortunate, but then again I guess you don't make mistakes!



No, I've been honest and straightforward, You don't want to hear my answers because it puts you at fault. You typed war and peace (Posted it twice) and wanted everyone here to tell you that you were right and the rental company was wrong.

I make mistakes, we all make mistakes the difference is that I don't run to a forum type a huge diatribe and then get angry when they tell me that most of the issues are ones that I created.
  • 0

#15 Richard Lapthorn

Richard Lapthorn

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:09 PM

My apologies if that was too many words for you after you'd finished stuffing your face full of Turkey Eric. I had kept notes of all the phone calls and emails so far as I wasn't sure what might or might not be relevant if I had to take legal action. I don't think you'd like War and Peace. It has a lot more words in it!

I'm also not sure where it was that I got angry after being told that most of the issues were ones I created. That bit of the conversation must have escaped me.

I wasn't looking for anybody to tell me I was right and I can categorically tell you the rental company is wrong because I know I didn't damage the equipment. I came here looking for opinions on what my options might be, not for you to repeatedly state this obvious and tell me I should have hired a trained operator.

Congratulations, you've made my visit to these forums a fairly unpleasant one



Eric you have been particularly rude and unhelpful and I am genuinely surprised you are a site moderator. I came here looking for help and advice and you have done nothing but repeatedly tell me I should be a trained op... I get it! I hope you don't find yourself in the position of needing help on a forum one day. You might run into someone like yourself and that would be unfortunate, but then again I guess you don't make mistakes!



No, I've been honest and straightforward, You don't want to hear my answers because it puts you at fault. You typed war and peace (Posted it twice) and wanted everyone here to tell you that you were right and the rental company was wrong.

I make mistakes, we all make mistakes the difference is that I don't run to a forum type a huge diatribe and then get angry when they tell me that most of the issues are ones that I created.


  • 0




Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

PLC Electronics Solutions

Boland Communications

BOXX

Varizoom Follow Focus

Engineered Cinema Solutions

Paralinx LLC

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

IDX

Omnishot Systems

Wireless Video Systems

SkyDreams

Teradek

rebotnix Technologies

PLC - Bartech

Ritter Battery

GPI Pro Systems