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FlyerLE - SonyEX3-Drift


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#1 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:25 AM

Hey all, First time poster.

I am running a flyer LE setup with a sony EX3 and am experiencing a lot of trouble getting steady framed shots when I am holding a still shot. I get a sailboat effect where there is a slight back and forth rocking motion that i attempt to compensate for with my handwork, which sometimes fixes it and sometimes exemplifies the problem.

My main question is, is this my inexperience with the rig, or is it the nature of how my rig would be setup? I could record my drop times and provide pictures of my balance if that would be helpful. The rig seems to float nicely by my side, and i can balance it there with no hands with just little hip movements.

Is it better to have the camera closer/farther from the gimble to limit this sort of sway?

any help would be appreciated! thanks so much.


ryan
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#2 Brian Freesh

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:40 AM

Welcome to the forum, Ryan.

It could really be a lot of things, a video showing the footage and a video showing you operating would really help to diagnose the issue.

The first two things that should perhaps be mentioned are 1) make sure the camera's OIS is off and 2) holding a static frame with a steadicam is arguably one of the hardest things to do with it. Holding it perfectly still is nigh impossible, but holding it acceptably still just takes practice. And i suppose a third thing: 3) If you haven't taken a workshop, sign up for one.

Good luck!
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#3 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:47 AM

If you haven't already, buy and study the Good Book...
http://www.steadicam...t=0

Sway is most likely due to hand grip issues. What is your drop time?
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#4 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 12:38 PM

If you haven't already, buy and study the Good Book...
http://www.steadicam...t=0

Sway is most likely due to hand grip issues. What is your drop time?


thanks for replies!


Image stabilization is a BAD thing to be on? interesting, will try working with that. My drop time is about 1 second from horizontal with the floor, to perpendicular. Thinking it is probably my hand technique as well.. but with no professionals around where I am and me being the only steady cam OP at the house, I need to start refining my skill. Don't know if classes are within the budget.
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#5 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:44 PM

Where are you located? Are you sure there are no ops in driving distance to visit and ask questions of?

If you can't take a workshop, then you "must" get the Steadicam Operators Handbook and the "EFP Training DVD" (old but the basic principles are sound and well-explained.) Practice the exercises in your Flyer manual, as well as in the Handbook.

Your drop time is WAY too short, even for a smaller rig. You should be looking at 2 1/2 to 3 seconds IMO.

Keep your post short, also.

Yes, your hand work is probably part of the problem. The Handbook has an excellent section on that.
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#6 Lars Erik

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:03 AM

If you haven't already, buy and study the Good Book...
http://www.steadicam...t=0

Sway is most likely due to hand grip issues. What is your drop time?


thanks for replies!


Image stabilization is a BAD thing to be on? interesting, will try working with that. My drop time is about 1 second from horizontal with the floor, to perpendicular. Thinking it is probably my hand technique as well.. but with no professionals around where I am and me being the only steady cam OP at the house, I need to start refining my skill. Don't know if classes are within the budget.


Hi Ryan. Welcome to the forum.

As Mark pointed out, not sure where you're stationed. A 2-day workshop costs 600 bucks. + travel costs and hotel. Do it. You'll learn a lot.

Is it your Flyer or a production house who's bought it? If it's a producer who's bought it, you should try and convince this person the benefits of you taking a class.

I wouldn't advice on trying to balance the rig with no hands. First, your posture is usually different then it is when you've got a hand on the gimbal. Secondly, you never know what will happen. If the rig suddenly fly away from you, it can happen with great speed. That's bad.

It's way more expensive to learn the wrong way and end up with footage that just don't work or need to use several hours in post to try and stabilize the image more. The book and DVD are great, but less useful if you haven't learned from others first.

http://www.thesteadi...grams2Day.shtml
And no, don't use image stabilization when on the rig.
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#7 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:37 AM

Where are you located? Are you sure there are no ops in driving distance to visit and ask questions of?

If you can't take a workshop, then you "must" get the Steadicam Operators Handbook and the "EFP Training DVD" (old but the basic principles are sound and well-explained.) Practice the exercises in your Flyer manual, as well as in the Handbook.

Your drop time is WAY too short, even for a smaller rig. You should be looking at 2 1/2 to 3 seconds IMO.

Keep your post short, also.

Yes, your hand work is probably part of the problem. The Handbook has an excellent section on that.


i am In the Albany area in NY, only about 3 hours from the City. If there were more workshops offered I could probably get to one ! :) looks like most of them coming up are already booked up with no new ones on the schedule.

Will try a much longer drop time today and ordered the manual this morning as well. Thanks for the help guys, will keep my eye on the site to hopefully jump onto one of the new workshops !


ryan
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#8 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:09 AM

Good moves.

Now Google your local ops, and call to introduce yourself and invite each of them to coffee. They can possibly be a great help to you. You may consider volunteering to be an assistant on a few of their shoots in exchange for mentoring.


How old are you? What is your overall experience with camera operating? Are you employed in the business now?
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#9 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:32 PM

Good moves.

Now Google your local ops, and call to introduce yourself and invite each of them to coffee. They can possibly be a great help to you. You may consider volunteering to be an assistant on a few of their shoots in exchange for mentoring.


How old are you? What is your overall experience with camera operating? Are you employed in the business now?



I am 26 and work at the Experimental Media and Performing Arts Center, in Troy NY at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. EMPAC

My overall experience is with general digital documentation (SonyEX3 / Canon XLH1) /robotic telemetrics systems / and small scale documentary film. My general weakness is functioning within a "shoot" setting. Our rig is mostly used for behind the scenes style documentation of residencies and occasional dvd productions of live shows. This means A lot of things are done off the cuff and i get caught off guard with movements and locations while wearing the rig. I don't have the ability to always prepare my stances and walking paths ahead of time. But, I want to get as much experience out of it as I can so I can maybe start doing some freelance work on the side and earn enough money for my own rig.


I am thinking I may have to start adding some weight to my camera, because the EX3 is so light. To lengthen the post a decent amount, I end up having to have quite a bit of the post and camera above the gimble in order to get my 2/2.4 second drop time.

Edited by ryan t jenkins, 03 November 2011 - 02:34 PM.

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#10 Brian Freesh

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:32 PM

To lengthen the post a decent amount


Can you qualify that? To me the perfect amount to lengthen the post for a typical shot is zero. True, you can add inertia with a longer post, but it's also easier to kick it, harder to get through smaller/crowded spaces, and with the gimbal so low, even if you're not off horizon by as many degrees it will still look it on camera.

Try it with a shorter post, gimble higher. I actually like a shorter drop time on the smaller rigs, but I've slowly warmed up to a 2 second. Although most people count fast, so that's probably the same as Mark's 3 second! :P
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#11 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:29 AM

I am a bit self conscious too, but would it be acceptable to post some side by side videos of My footage next to my footwork? I don't know if that is overstepping the boundaries of how much help noobies should get. Might take me a little bit to get it shot and edited together. Watched the DVD twice yesterday all the way through, definitely have made some progress in my "understanding" but not a whole ton in my shots.

thanks for all the help! Emails are sent out to some locals that i google up. hopefully something will come of that as well.
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#12 ryan t jenkins

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 08:10 AM

hey all, just adding to this thread in case other newbies with similar problems/setup stumble upon it and can be helped.


I have made a lot of progress by shooting every day, and found that my major problem really was my dynamic balance. A lot of my sailboat rolling problems were from me going to slightly pan and then introducing wobble through that. I thought it was my handwork, but after really analyzing my dynamic balance i think most of the wobble in the rig is introduced from that rather than from my hands.

I do find that dynamic balance is a bit of a challenge on the flyer though because of the limitations on the battery placement, I can pitch it up and down but no real forward / back movement.
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#13 Janice Arthur

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:46 AM

R

No offense but this ain't dynamic balance. U just haven't figured out
The good and the bad of what you are doing.

Take a class as soon as u can or just find an op near you who can
Help u

Good luck.

Ja
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