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snapped spring in <Master Series arm


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#1 Geoff Owen

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 08:45 PM

Hi all,
I'm interested in any comments that you all may have on this subject.
This week I snapped a spring in my master series arm, (Upper section, upper spring) it was not excessively loaded (Arri Alexia, 15-45 short zoom etc) not sure of the exact weight but well within the limits of the arm.
I have not heard of this problem before, I have heard that sometimes the lugs at the end of the spring cables have ripped/pulled off but not the spring breaking. Anyone had this problem?
Regarding repairs. Still waiting to find out if Tiffen will supply a single spring or if they will supply a set of 3 or 6 springs(hopefully Tiffen will have them in stock) and what price they will charge.
In your oppinion should all the springs be changed as a matter of course? Or is this such an uncommon problem that just replacing the broken spring will be ok.
Anyone have any ideas of the cost of these springs?
Any feedback on this I would appreciate.
Regards
Geoff Owen
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#2 Osvaldo Silvera SOC

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:40 AM

In 2005 I was on a job.... 435, anamorphic lens, 400' load, filters mattebox, 2 motors, 2BFD's...3A arm I had with "gold springs"

AD says( YELLS) "Roll Audio, "Speed", Background action, Roll Camera "Speed", Director yells "Action"
SNAP!!!!, The top section of the part of the arm closest to me broke in two....The Top spring broke, sending one of the pieces thru the aluminum spring cover ..No one was injured, My foot caught the sled (ouch) and the Robert Luna inspected the arm and found the springs just gave way. He didnt think they were gold. Rebuild was $5300! I was lucky, Production paid for it. All springs were changed because there was no way in telling whether they were all old or in similar condition to the one that broke.

Sometimes they just give way!
Another Master arm recently went down here in town also. Maybe they're getting a bit old.
Was it older, Had it been rebuilt in the last 6+ years?
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#3 Geoff Owen

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 12:46 PM

As far as I know the arm is original, 12 - 14 years old. I have only had it for the past 4 years, I will check with the previous owner and see if he ever had any work done to it. I guess that it is due for a rebuild, however until the other day the arm was working perfectly. The engineer that I have taken it to for repair said that he has seen a few old 3 arms with this problem.
Thanks for your reply Osvaldo.
Geoff Owen
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#4 Chris Allen

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

Happens more than you realize. I have two master series arms and with the amount of use they get (5 days a week..5-8 hrs a day...live television) the springs and such eventually give. I think over the eight years I've had these, I've had 7- 8 spring fatalities. Some live on air. You often get a 'pinging' noise from the springs previous to a failure.

I try to send out each arm once a year for inspection and overhaul...$1500US as opposed to $5000 or so after a failure. And a failure will often include replacement of some other parts because of the damage that can occur.

Robert Luna is the guy to go to here in the states...find his contact info and give him a call, even if you just want to understand how and why this happens...i'm sure he'll be happy to explain as he is one of the nicest guys I know.

Chris

Edited by Chris Allen, 09 November 2012 - 04:35 PM.

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#5 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

Gosh Chris. Those numbers are astounding.

Have you thought of swapping the arms out for something more reliable and less prone to failure?

Rick.


Happens more than you realize. I have two master series arms and with the amount of use they get (5 days a week..5-8 hrs a day...live television) the springs and such eventually give. I think over the eight years I've had these, I've had 7- 8 spring fatalities. Some live on air. You often get a 'pinging' noise from the springs previous to a failure.

I try to send out each arm once a year for inspection and overhaul...$1500US as opposed to $5000 or so after a failure. And a failure will often include replacement of some other parts because of the damage that can occur.

Robert Luna is the guy to go to here in the states...find his contact info and give him a call, even if you just want to understand how and why this happens...i'm sure he'll be happy to explain as he is one of the nicest guys I know.

Chris


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#6 Chris Allen

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

@Rick,

Yes, I'm looking into purchasing a third arm to throw into our rotation. Demo'ing the G70x right now actually...this design I think is more robust and it appears Tiffen has gotten rid of the 'sticktion' which really drove me nuts when using the first generation.

I'd also like to try the Steadyrig Silver arm as that gives you the option of doing some basic maintenance, but haven't found a way to get one.

Also demoed Robert Luna's 'Master Series' style arm that he has redeveloped....liked it a lot, as I am partial to the Master Series as far as feel goes...

Chris

Edited by Chris Allen, 13 November 2012 - 03:15 PM.

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#7 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

Try a PRO arm? Years of trouble free use.
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#8 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:11 AM

Happens more than you realize. I have two master series arms and with the amount of use they get (5 days a week..5-8 hrs a day...live television) the springs and such eventually give. I think over the eight years I've had these, I've had 7- 8 spring fatalities. Some live on air. You often get a 'pinging' noise from the springs previous to a failure.

I try to send out each arm once a year for inspection and overhaul...$1500US as opposed to $5000 or so after a failure. And a failure will often include replacement of some other parts because of the damage that can occur.


I've had one PRO arm for 12+ years and ZERO spring failures. Yearly arm maintenance cost has been zero.....
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#9 Jens Piotrowski SOC

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

the best advise was given by Job, try all arms in your price range and then make a decision.

G-70X Arm with steel connector $18.800

Pro Arm incl. 4 spring canisters $18,250
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#10 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

the best advise was given by Job, try all arms in your price range and then make a decision.

G-70X Arm with steel connector $18.800

Pro Arm incl. 4 spring canisters $18,250


vs buying two masters arms (Lets say they are 12K each) and doing $24000 in maintenance on them thru the 8 years of service so right now you are $38K in....
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#11 JobScholtze

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

Duhh???? Is the G70 arm more expensive then a pro?????? Wow, just wow
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#12 Evrim KAYA

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

it is not fair to compare Gx-70 arm price with the 4 canister Pro arm as with only 4 canister you don't get all the weith range of the arm. A more traditional Pro arm package would be a 8 canister system which is much more expensive than Gx series.
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#13 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:51 AM

it is not fair to compare Gx-70 arm price with the 4 canister Pro arm as with only 4 canister you don't get all the weith range of the arm. A more traditional Pro arm package would be a 8 canister system which is much more expensive than Gx series.


2 blues and 2 blacks and you can fly pretty much anything so yes it's a fair comparison
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#14 Evrim KAYA

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:21 AM

According to Pro Arm load bearing data without 4 black canisters you'll lose 10 lbs from top load which is significant. but one should always make the decision according to one's market/budget.
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#15 RonBaldwin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:00 AM

According to Pro Arm load bearing data without 4 black canisters you'll lose 10 lbs from top load which is significant. but one should always make the decision according to one's market/budget.




two blacks and two blues will handle 13 to 63 lbs -- assuming a 22 lb sled, that's cameras up to 41 lbs. It seems rare if we see cameras over 30 lbs anymore.

4 black canisters will fly a 50+ lb camera...which is nuts btw. I have only put 4 blacks in once or twice when flying gyros on a Panavision which pushed the load over 40 lbs

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