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Garrett's front mount back mount


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#1 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 01:30 PM

I had a chance to see and fly Garrett's new Klassen front mounted back mounted vest (don't know a better way to describe it) at the Tiffen party the other night. Not owning a back mounted harness (and only having flown one a few times) it's hard for me to say if I prefer the back/front mount over the back mount. What I CAN say is that I like it! I think it takes the best of both syles of vest/harness and combines them. I'm looking forward to hearing what operators that already own a backmounted harness think of it. I believe Garrett's vest will be at the Steadicam Guild get-together tonight for any attendees to try. Plus, there's free food tonight, which is another reason to go.
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#2 PaulEdwards

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 03:46 PM

Brad,

Could you elaborate on the new vest's design. Is it a more rigid version of the Tiffen front mount? Has the socket block position been moved?

Thanks,

Paul
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#3 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 03:48 PM

Well, I managed to miss the meeting, and make Jon Myers miss it too. At least I was doing something productive (working on my new reel). Anyway, I'm interested to hear what some of the other operators that made it to the meeting think of the vest. Good? No good? No difference?
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#4 charlesneufeld

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:15 PM

Hey Paul,

Check out this link. David and Wil have so nicely posed with the new creation :rolleyes:
http://www.steadicam...findpost&p=7328

I think this is what they are talking about, but someone correct me if I am wrong.

later,
~C
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#5 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 01:28 AM

Brad,

Could you elaborate on the new vest's design. Is it a more rigid version of the Tiffen front mount? Has the socket block position been moved?

Thanks,

Paul

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The socketblock was originally in the center of the front of the vest, but Garrett has since moved it about 6 inches to the right so that it is relatively in the same spot that it is in on the master vest. The design is a bit different in that the vest has been stiffened on the right side so that it basically mirrors the arm of a back mounted vest, without the extra piece. The rest of the design of the vest is basically the same. It looks exactly like a regular Klassen back mounted vest, except that there is no arm coming around the side. I really wish I would have taken a picture of it. I wouldn't be surprised if David Grove has a picture of it. Hopefully he does and will post it here. To me, it felt just like a regular back mounted vest....except it was mounted in the front.
According to Garrett, this version of the vest will be available soon through Klassen and Tiffen.
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#6 Howard J Smith

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 11:50 PM

Hi Paul/Brad

How are you?

Both myself and Will Arnot tried both the new vest and the Genesis vest side by side.
Garretts vest is a big improvement on the standard front mount, but we both felt it was not as comfortable as the genesis/traditional.

I found I still had more control and comfort fully back mounted. (I have been 100% backmounted for the last 3 years, + 15 years front mounted)

Will would you like to add anything to this?

Also thanks to Frank and Kyle.

All the best and happy holidays

Howard
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#7 chrisgosch

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 12:19 PM

Has anyone had any tingling or nerve problems in there legs with the Klassan or DSD Vests? I tried out an Action Cam back mounted Vest for one week on a job two years ago and since then I have had an on again off again tingling in my right leg (I am a goofy footed operator) where the pressure from the vest was. I tried Klassen's vest at Cinegear and it felt much more comfortable than my front mounted vest. But I would love some feedback on longterm use. I am ready to buy a Klassan vest and would love to order before the price increase. I wish I made it to the parties this past week but of course I got a job working both days and wrapped too late.


Thanks,

Christopher Gosch
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#8 Howard J Smith

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:00 PM

Hi Chris

How are you?
I have using and demoing the back mounted vests for 3 years now and I all have is good things to say.
I have 4 vests that I use 1 traditional, 1 Lite, 2 x genesis and they are all very comfortable.

I have shot 17 Mags in an afternoon with an Anomorphic LW Pana with all the toys on, and I felt great on wrap - I tried doing the same the year before with a front mount and at the end of the day I was lying on the floor in agony. My friend Chris McGuire did a continual 128 minute shot in low-mode with his on the football and was a bit stiff the next day, but otherwise fine.

Regarding numbness - I have never had this, but your hip muscles do notice the difference and after the first day you will be a little sore, but after 5 mins work they are fine.

Will would be good to coment on this as he has just upgraded his traditional and he say's it is even better.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Howard
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#9 Garrett Brown

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 09:09 PM

Just to recap the logic of my 'front mount' back mount vest, here is the gist of my request to Walter.

I disliked the 'sticking-out' aspect of the present design, also the reversed socket block and the outboard position for the arm mount. I believe the range and usefulness of the arm is greatest when mounted in the position (and direction) we have used for so many years... which evolved for some good Darwinian-type reasons...

But, Walter believed that a front mount would be inherently 'different' feel than a back mount.

I therefore asked him to imagine the following:

-take the present back-moount, reduce the clearance between carbon arm and vest... still works.
-reduce clearance further until they touch... it still works
-reduce further, until they merge!... of course it still works.

with the extra stiffening and your new rigid hinge, the vest becomes the arm and voila! it works the same! but doesn't stick out, etc.

It seems clear that if one is willing to give up major adjustability of the mount up and down and settle for right-side-only, or left-side-only versions, it is a valuable alternative.

So I paid for Walter to build what he calls the 'Garrett Version' (though he gave me a really great deal, since it involved a lot more stiffening work on that side of the vest!)

When it showed up, Walter had tried to make it more versatile and had nailed it to a central mount, but it wasn't rigid enough, so I made the piece you saw and mounted it in the position I described above, and now I think it's quite good.

Walter says Tiffen can sell it as a special garrett-version, with customers of course going to Walter for fitting as usual. Walter and I will work out the particulars of the deal we'll announce how it will be marketed.

thanks to all who came by The Tiffen events to give it a spin. Sorry I missed the get-together Saturday. Let me know what you guys think.

Regards, Garrett Brown
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#10 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 09:51 PM

Garrett,
It seems to me some kind of sliding plate could be devised so that the socket block could slide up and down. Even if it doesn't slide a great distance it could make the vest just a bit more versatile. Have you already thought of this and shot it down for any particular reason?
I liked the vest a lot and enjoyed seeing you again. Thanks for sharing!
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#11 Christopher T. Paul- SOC

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:06 PM

Hey Folks,

I'm strongly considering purchasing Walter Klassen's Dual mounted vest. I know that their back-mounted vest is supposed to be excellent, but I am wondering if anyone out there has first-hand experience with this new Dual-mounted vest.

(I also think that I'll be posting my Master Series vest for sale here pretty soon!)

Also if anyone is interested, my rickshaw is a few weeks from complete, (I think), and I'll post photos if anyone's interested. It will convert from rickshaw mode to fit into my trailer hitch. A big thanks to David Allen Grove for all of his help in this undertaking.

Thanks in advance!

Chris
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#12 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 11:37 PM

Chris,

How are you? Hope all is well. A few months ago, I posted on a few Klassen topics after my visit up North. While there I tried a prototype of the front/back mount vest. Here is a link to that post:

http://www.steadicam...st=0

Hope it helps.
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#13 MarkKaravite

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 10:12 PM

I have owned a Universal harness since December, and have loved it. The only complaint I have had is the difficulty in getting through tight spaces. Walter and I have had many discussions on this point prior to Garrett's design of the dual harness. I first saw the dual at NAB. The socket block was a little high off the front door of the harness, and you felt like you were operating with your elbows in the air. Garrett and Walter modified the design to a mount that's top ends at the top of the front door.

I had my vest modified just prior to starting a feature in late July. After nearly 2 weeks of shooting, I have found myself jumping back and forth between back mounted and front mounted positions quite often. The AC's have named the front mount "old school".

When in the front mounted position, it does feel more like my old front mounted vest. What I give up in comfort is a small consession, not having to cringe everytime I approach a doorway. I am finding that I can fly full tilt through doorways like before. Switching modes literally takes less than a minute. To change over, simply remove your back mount carbon arm, flip your arm socket over, and tighten your shoulder straps a bit.

The only big problem I have is that I cannot adjust the socket block to balance the rig fore and aft. With the top screw all the way in, the sled still wants to run away from me. Walter is working on a wedge that will change slightly tilt the whole front mounted rig towards me, and it should solve this problem. Depending on the angle of your front door, the angle needed might be different.

Although the new dual harness has more carbon fiber, and is therefore slightly stiffer than a normal Universal, I have had success operating with a modified Universal harness. You need to have the metal hinge on your front door for rigidity (ratchets on both sides won't work).

I was hired on the feature on Thursday night, I shipped Walter the harness on Friday, he modified it on Monday, I received it back on Wednesday, and was shooting on Friday. Thanks to the Klassen clan for turning it around so quickly for me. They're great!

Mark Karavite
Steadicam Owner / Operator
mkaravite@comcast.net
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