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Another standard "which rig would you suggest" thread :)


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#1 Eric Siebert

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 04:27 AM

Hi everybody. I am new to the forums and would like to introduce myself a bit.
My name is Eric, I am from Germany and I am 24 years old. Since I got in touch with some small stabilizing systems as the Artemis DV MD Pro by Sachtler or the cheaper Glidecam rigs during university, I knew I wanted to become a more or less professional steadicam operator someday. At least own professional equipment as a first step ;)
I own a Sony PMW 350K and I guess this will be my camera for the next two years and the camera I plan to practice with on the yet non-existing steadi-rig ;)

Unfortunately, as far as I know, we do not have too many retailers or distributors for steadicam equipment in Germany. The only thing you can buy here are the Glidecam Gold systems (24k€/31k$) or the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD (30k€/40k$)
I only have some vague experience with the cheap Glidecams, but I found they were so weak and "cheap" (in the sense of quality) that I personally have a sort of negative attitude towards that company. Hopefully you will tell me, that even the Gold system is crap anyways, so I do not have to consider buying it anymore ;))

Unfortuantely I didn't find a company or retailer shipping tiffen products in Germany and giving me the opportunity to test some of the equipment.
So basically here is my question.
Has anyone of you worked with the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD AND a Archer2SE (which I guess is the one that fits my needs best, as far as I can read from the tech specs) and can help me with some suggestions?

Concerning my clients, I often work for TV channels, live events and stuff like that, never did 16 or 35mm film stuff before, so I guess my rig will be for broadcast usage most of the time. I plan to buy the rig in spring 2011, practice everyday with my camera and during the projects I get, and hopefully get the chance to work as a steadi op from 2012 on. I have some good connections so if I don't lack talent completely I think this could work out fine. I am willing to spend as much money as needed, meaning the quality per dollar-relation should be worth it ;)
Thanks in advance for your help. I hope you understand, what I am looking for ;)
Have a sunny day!

Edited by eric siebert, 25 November 2010 - 04:29 AM.

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#2 Thomas K. Jensen

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:00 AM

Hi everybody. I am new to the forums and would like to introduce myself a bit.
My name is Eric, I am from Germany and I am 24 years old. Since I got in touch with some small stabilizing systems as the Artemis DV MD Pro by Sachtler or the cheaper Glidecam rigs during university, I knew I wanted to become a more or less professional steadicam operator someday. At least own professional equipment as a first step ;)
I own a Sony PMW 350K and I guess this will be my camera for the next two years and the camera I plan to practice with on the yet non-existing steadi-rig ;)

Unfortunately, as far as I know, we do not have too many retailers or distributors for steadicam equipment in Germany. The only thing you can buy here are the Glidecam Gold systems (24k€/31k$) or the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD (30k€/40k$)
I only have some vague experience with the cheap Glidecams, but I found they were so weak and "cheap" (in the sense of quality) that I personally have a sort of negative attitude towards that company. Hopefully you will tell me, that even the Gold system is crap anyways, so I do not have to consider buying it anymore ;))

Unfortuantely I didn't find a company or retailer shipping tiffen products in Germany and giving me the opportunity to test some of the equipment.
So basically here is my question.
Has anyone of you worked with the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD AND a Archer2SE (which I guess is the one that fits my needs best, as far as I can read from the tech specs) and can help me with some suggestions?

Concerning my clients, I often work for TV channels, live events and stuff like that, never did 16 or 35mm film stuff before, so I guess my rig will be for broadcast usage most of the time. I plan to buy the rig in spring 2011, practice everyday with my camera and during the projects I get, and hopefully get the chance to work as a steadi op from 2012 on. I have some good connections so if I don't lack talent completely I think this could work out fine. I am willing to spend as much money as needed, meaning the quality per dollar-relation should be worth it ;)
Thanks in advance for your help. I hope you understand, what I am looking for ;)
Have a sunny day!


Hello Eric.

I think, that Your plan to become a Steadicam-operator is great. And your business plan is OK, but I think you should consider a different approach.
You wrote that you have used the Artemis and Glidecam in University, but did you take a workshop?
If not... Stop doing anything else, and pay that 3000$, and go to the US to take the workshop.
You'll learn everything you need, and on the Tiffen Workshops they have all the big rigs represented.
When I went for the workshop, I had my mind set up. I thought that I should buy the Archer2, but when I tried it against The Ultra, and Clipper I felt that Clipper would be the rig for me.

It's a great rig, and I'm very happy I didn't rush into buying anything before the workshop.

So, my advise is:
Take the workshop, and then you can decide witch Rig to go for.

Thomas
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#3 Eric Siebert

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:08 AM

Hi everybody. I am new to the forums and would like to introduce myself a bit.
My name is Eric, I am from Germany and I am 24 years old. Since I got in touch with some small stabilizing systems as the Artemis DV MD Pro by Sachtler or the cheaper Glidecam rigs during university, I knew I wanted to become a more or less professional steadicam operator someday. At least own professional equipment as a first step ;)
I own a Sony PMW 350K and I guess this will be my camera for the next two years and the camera I plan to practice with on the yet non-existing steadi-rig ;)

Unfortunately, as far as I know, we do not have too many retailers or distributors for steadicam equipment in Germany. The only thing you can buy here are the Glidecam Gold systems (24k€/31k$) or the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD (30k€/40k$)
I only have some vague experience with the cheap Glidecams, but I found they were so weak and "cheap" (in the sense of quality) that I personally have a sort of negative attitude towards that company. Hopefully you will tell me, that even the Gold system is crap anyways, so I do not have to consider buying it anymore ;))

Unfortuantely I didn't find a company or retailer shipping tiffen products in Germany and giving me the opportunity to test some of the equipment.
So basically here is my question.
Has anyone of you worked with the Sachtler Artemis Cine HD AND a Archer2SE (which I guess is the one that fits my needs best, as far as I can read from the tech specs) and can help me with some suggestions?

Concerning my clients, I often work for TV channels, live events and stuff like that, never did 16 or 35mm film stuff before, so I guess my rig will be for broadcast usage most of the time. I plan to buy the rig in spring 2011, practice everyday with my camera and during the projects I get, and hopefully get the chance to work as a steadi op from 2012 on. I have some good connections so if I don't lack talent completely I think this could work out fine. I am willing to spend as much money as needed, meaning the quality per dollar-relation should be worth it ;)
Thanks in advance for your help. I hope you understand, what I am looking for ;)
Have a sunny day!


Hello Eric.

I think, that Your plan to become a Steadicam-operator is great. And your business plan is OK, but I think you should consider a different approach.
You wrote that you have used the Artemis and Glidecam in University, but did you take a workshop?
If not... Stop doing anything else, and pay that 3000$, and go to the US to take the workshop.
You'll learn everything you need, and on the Tiffen Workshops they have all the big rigs represented.
When I went for the workshop, I had my mind set up. I thought that I should buy the Archer2, but when I tried it against The Ultra, and Clipper I felt that Clipper would be the rig for me.

It's a great rig, and I'm very happy I didn't rush into buying anything before the workshop.

So, my advise is:
Take the workshop, and then you can decide witch Rig to go for.

Thomas

Thank you for your reply. You are correct, I didn't take a workshop yet, but I plan to do so in the near future, but I have to combine it somehow to a vacational trip to the US, where I have never been before (and I truly believe your country has more to offer than Steadi-Workshops :D But I really envy you for those professional workshops and environment for steadicams)

Can you tell somehow why you preferred the Clipper? Is it more a "feeling" or where there "facts" or "thnigs" you liked or disliked at both systems?
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#4 Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:21 AM

Unfortunately, as far as I know, we do not have too many retailers or distributors for steadicam equipment in Germany.


http://www.betz-tools.com/
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#5 Markus Kuballa

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:28 AM

Hi Eric!

Welcome.

I'm from Germany too and as Thomas said it is really necessary to take a workshop before you decide on what you should spend vast amounts of money on and if its for you at all. As for retailers in Germany I know that Betz-Tools in Munich also sell and repair Tiffen rigs as well as Pro Rigs. Tiffen also sells their rigs shipping from London. Secondly it might not be necessary to fly all the way to the U.S. and spend some of your vacation on a workshop since Tiffen also has workshops in Europe from time to time. I think I remember someone saying that there is going to be one in Denmark next year. The workshop I took In the U.S. was great though and I met a lot of really nice people there too(Thomas for example ;)). So wherever you go TAKE THE WORKSHOP!! I also took a workshop with sachtler before I went to the U.S. but ended up buying a Tiffen rig in the end. So you see there is lots of possibilities.

Also if you are in or around Berlin I'd be happy to let you try on my rig for starters.

Best

Markus


Here is the link to Betz: http://www.betz-tools.com/index_d.htm
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#6 Eric Siebert

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:34 AM

Hi Eric!

Welcome.

I'm from Germany too and as Thomas said it is really necessary to take a workshop before you decide on what you should spend vast amounts of money on and if its for you at all. As for retailers in Germany I know that Betz-Tools in Munich also sell and repair Tiffen rigs as well as Pro Rigs. Tiffen also sells their rigs shipping from London. Secondly it might not be necessary to fly all the way to the U.S. and spend some of your vacation on a workshop since Tiffen also has workshops in Europe from time to time. I think I remember someone saying that there is going to be one in Denmark next year. The workshop I took In the U.S. was great though and I met a lot of really nice people there too(Thomas for example ;)). So wherever you go TAKE THE WORKSHOP!! I also took a workshop with sachtler before I went to the U.S. but ended up buying a Tiffen rig in the end. So you see there is lots of possibilities.

Also if you are in or around Berlin I'd be happy to let you try on my rig for starters.

Best

Markus


Here is the link to Betz: http://www.betz-tools.com/index_d.htm


This would be perfect as I live in Berlin actually ;) If you like to get in contact with me feel free to write or call (eric.siebert@gmx.de, 0176-20631177)
Thank you all ;)
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#7 James Davis

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 08:14 AM

IF you are prepared to travel to England, I can highly recommend Optical support and their workshops, they have some superb Operators on board to teach for normal/medium budgets, they also have some proper A-list Steadicam legends available to teach if you have the budget for it too (Peter Robertson and Peter Cavaciuti), plus they are all great guys and gals:

http://www.opticalsupport.co.uk/

http://www.opticalsu...camtraining.php

Great guys, and lots of rigs for you to try out in house as well, full Tiffen steadicam range from flyer upwards, and PRO-GPI rigs, plus Klassen vests etc.
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#8 Thomas K. Jensen

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 12:45 PM

Thank you for your reply. You are correct, I didn't take a workshop yet, but I plan to do so in the near future, but I have to combine it somehow to a vacational trip to the US, where I have never been before (and I truly believe your country has more to offer than Steadi-Workshops :D But I really envy you for those professional workshops and environment for steadicams)

Can you tell somehow why you preferred the Clipper? Is it more a "feeling" or where there "facts" or "thnigs" you liked or disliked at both systems?

I'm from Denmark, and there were no workshops, that I heard of in my region, so that's why I went to Atlanta.
When I tried all the rigs at the workshop, I had already made up my mind on getting the Archer2SE, but when I got to fly them, side by side, and I did a little calculation, it was like 9000$ more for the Clipper 312 with all extra bells and whistles - like Motorized stage, built in frame lines and horizon, and the upgrade to Ultra 2 Vest, that I felt most comfortable wearing.

I think that there is a Steadicam Workshop coming up in Copenhagen?
But I must say, that having both Garrett Brown and Jerry Holway as teachers were all the moneys worth.
I also tried the Sachtler Artemis, and it has really great features, but it lacks Tilt head, and motorized stage, and the arm is like an older arm
But Sachtler makes the best Vest in my opinion.



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#9 Christian Betz

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:32 AM

Dear Eric,
as far as I know that you will know Betz-Tools in munich which is the distributor for Tiffen and other proffessional Steadicam system.
If you need any info please contact us http://www.betz-tools.com

Have a snowy day!
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