Jump to content



Photo

Looking for a good truck only mounted sled with Gyro


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Krisztian Orban

Krisztian Orban

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:28 AM

Hi

Our custom made camera truck Steadicam arm will be ready next week but the guy that was promising us a used Steadicam sled flaked in the last moment.

I need to find an inexpensive bare sled to hold larger cameras and two Kenyon gyros. The system will always be mounted on our camera truck ONLY so weight and size is not an issue.

I am looking for any suggestions on who to get a bare bone simple & affordable sled from? I really want to spend less then $1000 USD for the sled. It can be used and it does not have to be ultra smooth since its on a truck not on a vest. Also we dont need batteries, cables, battery mount or any of that stuff since the truck already has that.

I was looking as Basson. I know people say they are not that great but I really only care about the gimble not the rest of the system. If that's okay the rest we can modify to make it work. We have a full workshop where we build the trucks and gear but its a huge hassle to build a one-off gimble and adjustable camera plate.

Thanks!
  • 0

#2 Janice Arthur

Janice Arthur

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 811 posts

Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:37 AM

Kris;

Oh so much to reply to;

1) a good gimbal is more than 1k. So good luck with that.

2) Top stage is more than 1k.

3) On a vehicle with expensive cameras on your sled and clients expecting it all to work and you're cheaping out on the sled etc. Yikes!

4) Why don't you just call up PRO or anyone else and buy the top stage and gimbal and make the rest, as you said.

5) Very scared at this proposed set up.

6) "it does not have to be ultra smooth since its on a truck not on a vest" You don't know much about Steadicam "Smoothness" is not a function of the sled, hopefully your operator knows this and you just misstated that.

6) Seriously, you know Steadicam and speeds over about 30mph are very dangerous.
(Don't care if you are using gyros or not.)

JA
  • 0

#3 RonBaldwin

RonBaldwin

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2351 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:38 AM

Hi

Our custom made camera truck Steadicam arm will be ready next week but the guy that was promising us a used Steadicam sled flaked in the last moment.

I need to find an inexpensive bare sled to hold larger cameras and two Kenyon gyros. The system will always be mounted on our camera truck ONLY so weight and size is not an issue.

I am looking for any suggestions on who to get a bare bone simple & affordable sled from? I really want to spend less then $1000 USD for the sled. It can be used and it does not have to be ultra smooth since its on a truck not on a vest. Also we dont need batteries, cables, battery mount or any of that stuff since the truck already has that.

I was looking as Basson. I know people say they are not that great but I really only care about the gimble not the rest of the system. If that's okay the rest we can modify to make it work. We have a full workshop where we build the trucks and gear but its a huge hassle to build a one-off gimble and adjustable camera plate.

Thanks!


wow...$1000 for a sled capable of holding larger production cameras and two gyros?! Good thing it can be a used rig and you weren't asking for a new rig! fyi -- a gimbal capable of holding that weight is usually at least that amount (meaning a beat up 3A gimbal) and a beefier, relatively modern top stage can easily be twice that.
  • 0

#4 Jess Haas SOC

Jess Haas SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1145 posts
  • Culver City, CA

Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:52 PM

From what I have seen I would say putting a Basson on a truck is a recipe for disaster. I would not trust it. Cheapest new sled option that I can think of that would work would be ActionCam but overseas service is never great so it depends on where you are located.

As far as under $1000 optons go there was someone on here who posted a while back pictures of a camera platform that they built that sit directly on the arm instead of having a whole sled. Could probably add some gyros to the concept and make something up within your price range. It's not exactly Steadicam but the results will be similar.

What exactly are you using for an arm? You need something trustworthy as what you ate doing will put a lot of stress on it and the possible failure modes are not good.

-Jess
  • 0

#5 Mike Germond SOC

Mike Germond SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 468 posts
  • Orlando Steadicam LLC

Posted 12 November 2010 - 05:50 PM

http://www.tylerminigyro.com/home.html
  • 0

#6 Krisztian Orban

Krisztian Orban

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:05 PM

From what I have seen I would say putting a Basson on a truck is a recipe for disaster. I would not trust it. Cheapest new sled option that I can think of that would work would be ActionCam but overseas service is never great so it depends on where you are located.

As far as under $1000 optons go there was someone on here who posted a while back pictures of a camera platform that they built that sit directly on the arm instead of having a whole sled. Could probably add some gyros to the concept and make something up within your price range. It's not exactly Steadicam but the results will be similar.

What exactly are you using for an arm? You need something trustworthy as what you ate doing will put a lot of stress on it and the possible failure modes are not good.

-Jess



We are using a custom arm that was designed by myself. Its basically a 6 spring per arm setup made from solid aluminum. Its similer to an older Steadicam but twice the size.

I think you may understand what we are trying to do. Its not really a "sled" that we need. More like what you said "a camera on the arm". I really would just like to keep it simple and mount the camera onto a plate and gimble with the gyros on the top or bottom.

I guess if this is impossible then I will design a gimble and have the machinist make it. At least we have a good selection of bearings and aluminum here.
  • 0

#7 Alan Mehlbrech

Alan Mehlbrech

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:55 PM

Hey Kris O,

We would love to see pictures of the arm and the rig when you get it up and running....

Thanks,

Alan
  • 0

#8 Krisztian Orban

Krisztian Orban

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 13 November 2010 - 06:19 AM

Hey Kris O,

We would love to see pictures of the arm and the rig when you get it up and running....

Thanks,

Alan


Will do. Right now I only have the prototype picture that was made from steel. The machinist is making the new aluminum arms this week. I home to have the actual arm done by next Monday. I will upload pictures then!
  • 0

#9 Sanjay Sami

Sanjay Sami

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 429 posts
  • India

Posted 13 November 2010 - 06:25 PM

Hi Kris,
I think the steadicam route maybe the wrong one for your application. Have you seen or used the Chapman vertical vibration isolator? It is not a cheap option, but I think the correct one for truck mounted stabilisation. A gimbal based solution will be good for a certain kind of shot upto certain speeds. Over a certain speed you will get better results from other setups.
Besides which, gimbal setupd need a lot of finesse to operate effectively. A poor quality gimbal will make it very difficult to operate effectively.
You mention Gyros. Gyros will cost a lot more than the budget you have for your sled + gimbal.
Nothing I know of will fall in the 1000 $ ballpark.

Maybe try something like this - vibration isolators with Oconnor 2575's . Very effective . This is a picture from a movie I am working on right now. This setup is tried and tested upto speeds of 120 Kmph on asphalt.

Attached Files


  • 0

#10 Sanjay Sami

Sanjay Sami

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 429 posts
  • India

Posted 13 November 2010 - 06:28 PM

Another picture

Attached Files


  • 0

#11 Krisztian Orban

Krisztian Orban

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for the idea!

Yes I know the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" I am building one for our crane mounted remote head. Its actually a rather simple system that can be simple made from commercially available rode slider bearings & springs. The problem is the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" only handles X & Y or side to side vibration. Most of the vibration we are dealing with are on the Z axis or up and down.

The Steadicam type arm and operator will cancel the z axis bumps and such while the gimble and gyro will cancel the X & Y axis jerks. Also with our custom Steadicam arm the operator can tilt up and down almost 3' and a full 6' side to side while the arms remove the bumps associated with a moving truck. Even with the new air suspension on the main camera truck its still a bumpy ride for a camera.

We already bought two Kenyon gyros, two trucks for camera truck conversion and a full fabrication shop. This is why I cant spend too much on a gimble ;)
  • 0

#12 Jess Haas SOC

Jess Haas SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1145 posts
  • Culver City, CA

Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:56 PM

Yes I know the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" I am building one for our crane mounted remote head. Its actually a rather simple system that can be simple made from commercially available rode slider bearings & springs. The problem is the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" only handles X & Y or side to side vibration. Most of the vibration we are dealing with are on the Z axis or up and down.

Actually the vertical vibration isolator does isolate the up or down (z axis). Hence the vertical in the name. It is not what is pictured above.

~Jess
  • 0

#13 Sanjay Sami

Sanjay Sami

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 429 posts
  • India

Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:37 AM

Thanks for the idea!

Yes I know the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" I am building one for our crane mounted remote head. Its actually a rather simple system that can be simple made from commercially available rode slider bearings & springs. The problem is the "Chapman vertical vibration isolator" only handles X & Y or side to side vibration. Most of the vibration we are dealing with are on the Z axis or up and down.

The Steadicam type arm and operator will cancel the z axis bumps and such while the gimble and gyro will cancel the X & Y axis jerks. Also with our custom Steadicam arm the operator can tilt up and down almost 3' and a full 6' side to side while the arms remove the bumps associated with a moving truck. Even with the new air suspension on the main camera truck its still a bumpy ride for a camera.

We already bought two Kenyon gyros, two trucks for camera truck conversion and a full fabrication shop. This is why I cant spend too much on a gimble ;)


The pictures I attached are of the regular vibration isolator ( dolly type) . The vertical isolator is a little more like a steadicam arm, and isolates up and down movements.

The regular one works with a fluid head ( or geared head), by isolating the pan and tilt axis from the bumps of the car. Up and down movements are not as influential in disrupting your framing as angular ones are.
This system will work as long as you are not on very bad roads. If you are on bad roads, the vertical isolator with remote head , preferably stabilised is the tool for the job.
  • 0

#14 Sanjay Sami

Sanjay Sami

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 429 posts
  • India

Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:41 AM

Or if you dont have a stabilised head, use a makeshift solution such as the one I have here ;)
Mini Scorpio (non stabilised) on a spring plate with regular vibration isolator on a crane.

Attached Files


  • 0

#15 Krisztian Orban

Krisztian Orban

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 14 November 2010 - 01:05 AM

^
Very nice! I like your thinking! :D

I was just looking into using "steel wire springs" (I think that's what they are called) To make our crane's remote head stabilizer.

Can you tell me more about your rig? I am fascinated since this is exactly what we have to do until we can get a Russian Head.
We have a camera truck with air suspension and a Jimmy Jib crane that I modified. Solid tilt rod instead of the wire and latter some solid support rods instead of the wires.
Right now we have to stabilize the head with something and I was thinking of making exactly what you have. Any advise or feedback would be great!!

BTW: Our new website is not up yet. If you like I can send you pictures of the prototypes and the trucks in progress but I dont want to post the unfinished pictures.

Kris@FeralCatFilms.com
  • 0




GPI Pro Systems

PLC - Bartech

Teradek

Wireless Video Systems

rebotnix Technologies

BOXX

PLC Electronics Solutions

SkyDreams

Boland Communications

Engineered Cinema Solutions

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Omnishot Systems

Ritter Battery

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

Paralinx LLC

IDX

Varizoom Follow Focus