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circue du soleil 3D film in Vegas


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#1 brooksrobinson

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 08:50 PM

I'm just wondering if anyone else got called for the Circue du Soleil film shooting in Vegas in a couple of days. I got called and promptly turned it down after learning a bit more about the camera system. They are using a Pace set-up with two F23's - 70 pounds of camera according to the production manager who was talking simultaniously to the engineer. I asked him if that weight included the steadicam rig and he said no, that was just the weight of the cameras, lenses and brackets.

I don't know if my Pro Arm (much less my spine) is capable of carrying that much weight, although I seem to remember seeing pictures of someone doing it here on the forum a few years back. It didn't seem like the best job to jump into the nutty world of 3D with, especially since it starts shooting Friday (I think) with little or no prep time. Good luck to the person strong (crazy) enough to take this beast on.

Just wondering out loud who else got called and what you may have thought about it.

Brooks Robinson
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#2 Brian Freesh

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:15 PM

Can't speak to the job in Vegas, but I think This thread might be what you are remembering.

I know Tron: Legacy put 2 F35s on Steadicam. Avatar definitely did F900s, and maybe some of the F23 stuff was steadicam too? Larry did the dual Alexa thing this summer. The 70lbs is probably the studio set-up, Though still heavy, I'm sure the steadicam set-ups for those shows wasn't 70lbs + sled.
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#3 brooksrobinson

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:39 PM

Brian, I can't speak for those shows, but 70 pounds was what I was quoted as the weight for the steadicam camera package for this show. I asked for clarification twice because it was difficult for my (small) brain to grasp it.
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#4 Brian Freesh

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

Well, I take it back, a big studio 3d rig could likely be much heavier. And... I'm being told from someone who probably would know, that 70lbs isn't that outrageous for a F23 3d set-up for steadi.... Crazy Effing Sauce.
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#5 Sydney Seeber

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:10 PM

there is a guy in cali named Arnold whose schedule is wide open as of yesterday, he might be up to the task. Just don't get him started about the weed though. You'll be there all night.
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#6 Brian Freesh

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:18 PM

This is just an assumption, albeit a somewhat educated one... what if pace told prod the steadi set-up is ~70 (Pace would know by now) but that includes the sled. Somewhere between that conversation and your ears, the understanding (by people who don't know what 3d rigs, F-23s, and Steadicams are) got mixed up and you're being told you'd put 70lbs on top of your rig?

Gosh I hope so...
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#7 brooksrobinson

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:49 PM

Brian - the engineer (or whatever they are called in that world) from Pace was standing next to the UPM, and was answering my questions as I asked them. There was not a miscommunication as far as I could tell. I asked twice if the sled weight was included in the 70 pounds and was told no...the weight total was just the cameras and associated gear. My back hurt just thinking about it.

Thanks tor weighing in.

Brooks
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#8 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:45 AM

I'm also a stereographer. (kinda like a 3D director of photography)

Just wrapped a movie called Shark night 3D with Pace gear. Greg Smith was our operator, I helped him setup the his steadicam....


2 F35's and the PACE steadicam rig. Took alot of customizing....

It's a bit lighter than the same Alexa setup that McConkey is hustling in the Scorsese movie.


Just about maxed out the PRO arm. So 70lbs about right...



here some pics...just a few weeks old. Greg took the modified pieces straight to his next 3D movie. Is currently operating on.


But I'm available.... :)


he let me test it out...took it for a test drive...see what he was in for....

Posted Image

Posted Image

notice the AWESOME thick tether otherwise refereed to as the "loom".....

Posted Image



That said, switchovers are impossible....it's heavy.....you can't really run with it....going up stairs would be a challenge....it has alot of mass to move around...

It's doable but doesn't allow you to "steadicam" as normal...

Biggest problems are a "vibration" that comes thru the rig at times.... we did a mod to help address this but every once in awhile I would still see it. The other problem is that you really can rotate the rig 90 degrees since your gimbal hits the bottom camera.....needless to say this can really limit your operating.


For the Record.
All that said there are MUCH better 3D steadicam setup's I have flown... pace's setup is really challenging to deal with.

Edited by Pedro_Guimaraes, 04 November 2010 - 01:48 AM.

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#9 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:55 AM

Hardmount is usually the way to go......obviously.

So we did some of that...this was for a "walk and talk"

Greg Smith A-cam operator, Paul Santoni 1st and in the front seat is Brook Willard our DIT....

Posted Image


P.S- I did get a call for this but it was months ago.....never heard back...

Edited by Pedro_Guimaraes, 04 November 2010 - 01:58 AM.

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#10 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:09 AM

Just to clarify, The Pace "studio" rig with cameras etc..... is definitely more than 70lbs.

the steadicam rig is "lighter" and very different. Like I said it is about 70lbs including your sled monitor etc..It has a smaller mirror box and the dovetail where you mount moves opposite the when the IO changes on the rig......in an attempt to maintain balance when the stereographer might change the IO on you.....

communicate well with the stereographer and or the "convergence puller"...some shows don't have one or the stereographer will be the one pulling the convergence or IO.


I think it's about time I make a 3D steadicam post....I think I've flown 7 or 8 different 3D rigs now...

Edited by Pedro_Guimaraes, 04 November 2010 - 02:10 AM.

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#11 bobgorelick

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:19 AM

Very interesting thread. But I am curious about this: with all the talk about the 70lbs of weight up top, all of the photos posted show the sled with a shortened post with a light LCD monitor and just one or two Dionic batteries. How is the steadicam balanced like that? Ouch, my brain hurts! Someone please clue me in!
Bob Gorelick
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#12 James Puli

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 02:27 AM

I was thinking the same thing when I saw those pics Bob. Though on the vehicle mount shot I noticed what looks like another 2 batteries hanging further off the back of the base, with a cable or bungy cord going back to the post. Plus cables coming out of the batteries heading to the post as well. Hmm?

It does look like 4 blacks in the Pro arm though.

JP

Edited by James Puli, 04 November 2010 - 02:32 AM.

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#13 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:06 AM

I was thinking the same thing when I saw those pics Bob. Though on the vehicle mount shot I noticed what looks like another 2 batteries hanging further off the back of the base, with a cable or bungy cord going back to the post. Plus cables coming out of the batteries heading to the post as well. Hmm?

It does look like 4 blacks in the Pro arm though.

JP



Yes, 4 blacks on the arm....like I said around 70lbs..

and yes......there we had to make a alum. plate that basically extends rearward. On the back of that plate we mounted 3 dionic 90's and a few extra "weights". Because of this weight being so far back we had to add a "brace"....this is what I meant by modifications....

I look thru my pics and see if I can find a pic of the "modification".

with this weight so far back we were able to keep the post shorter than other setups as you can see in the pics......otherwise you post would be maxxed out. I have operated like that this year with another 3D rig and it sucks. Maxed out the g70 arm I was using at the time....
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#14 Dave Thompson

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 05:25 AM

I did a 3D concert film here in NYC not to long ago and they are right about the 70+lbs. It's definitely a beast and a lot of mass to put into motion. You dont really need a long post because the camera(F35 w/ 20mm Master prime in my case) that is vertical actually puts the weight below the gimbal so it act like bottom weight. Its strange to wrap your head around it but once you pick it up you immediately understand. Pace also had a recorder and wireless transmitter on the setup that I carried. It maxes out the PRO arm so it takes a bit of muscle to move it around. Any questions, feel free to email me.

Dave Thompson
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#15 Brian Freesh

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 07:11 AM

Pedro has me even more confused as well. It SEEMS like Pedro is saying it is 70 lbs including the sled, monitor, batteries. As he seems to confirm here:

Like I said it is about 70lbs including your sled monitor etc..


A G70 and a Pro arm theoretically max out with ~70lbs total on the arm. If the total "camera weight" is 70lbs, the additional weight of the sled/monitor/battery would overload the arm, which no one is saying happened. I have definitely seen steadicam arms take far more weight than rated for (on a Flyer), so 70lbs of camera weight is not out of the realm of what I wold believe, hence my willingness only to guess and hope that is incorrect. Which I still guess and hope is the truth!

It's not unlikely I just need to see the fully built rig on a frickin' scale before I come out of denial. :)
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