Jump to content



Photo

Dynamic Balance For Huge 3D Rigs


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Joel San Juan SOC

Joel San Juan SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 114 posts
  • Providence RI

Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:39 AM

Hi All,

Wanted to tap into your expertise. I have an upcoming job with the likes of
the Technica 3D rig with 2 Red Ones. I have seen photos of fellow operators
with that set up and am wondering how is it possible to get that set up into
dynamic balance. Do most of you just operate that massive set up in static
balance then? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Best
Joel
  • 0

#2 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 07 September 2010 - 09:44 AM

Hi All,

Wanted to tap into your expertise. I have an upcoming job with the likes of
the Technica 3D rig with 2 Red Ones. I have seen photos of fellow operators
with that set up and am wondering how is it possible to get that set up into
dynamic balance. Do most of you just operate that massive set up in static
balance then? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Best
Joel



You're not really whip panning so you don't need to be in dynamic balance
  • 0

#3 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

Pedro Guimaraes SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 204 posts
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:23 PM

+1 on what he said....


which is good because it's almost impossible most of the time due to where all the weight is.

What are you flying? quasar with reds? Thats almost impossible setup to fly since thats easily 85lbs+. Even hard mounted to a dolly (been there) I have seen the pro arm bend and look like it wanted to explode.

Just say NO to quasar/RED one combo. trust me.


neutron with Red EPICS? Now thats a nice setup......do tell......whats the show?






Hi All,

Wanted to tap into your expertise. I have an upcoming job with the likes of
the Technica 3D rig with 2 Red Ones. I have seen photos of fellow operators
with that set up and am wondering how is it possible to get that set up into
dynamic balance. Do most of you just operate that massive set up in static
balance then? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Best
Joel


  • 0

#4 thomas-english

thomas-english

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1165 posts
  • UK

Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:33 AM

Top tip.

IDX batteries that can stack into each other. Helps you send more weight backwards.

Forget about Dynamic balance. Book yourself a physio.
  • 0

#5 BJMcDonnell SOC

BJMcDonnell SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 387 posts
  • Malibu, Ca.

Posted 08 September 2010 - 01:31 PM

Im currently in Moscow shooting 3D with the element technica rigs right now. Forget dynamic balance. It will not happen. Regular balance sure, but it is such a pain in the ass to deal with the setup itself. I have the neutron rig with sony P1 cameras on it. It is a heavy beast. It has fiber cables attached and im doing a ton of action stuff. Im gonna say it has been really tough to use and I think it is probably the worst steadicam i've ever done due to the clunkiness and hard balance of the camera itself. Even the Quasar setup for regular operating is a pain. Weve been on Technocrane almost every day and the camera is so heavy the flight head sways back and fourth. Visual effects is going to have to stabilize every shot. Let alone we are using the gear over here that hasn't been serviced in who knows when. So thats my experience so far. I love the paradise FX rig. Thats the sweet steadicam rig. Two REDS?!!!!! go get a good physical therapist and get a major rate bump. That is torture.
  • 0

#6 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

Pedro Guimaraes SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 204 posts
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:18 AM

Im currently in Moscow shooting 3D with the element technica rigs right now. Forget dynamic balance. It will not happen. Regular balance sure, but it is such a pain in the ass to deal with the setup itself. I have the neutron rig with sony P1 cameras on it. It is a heavy beast. It has fiber cables attached and im doing a ton of action stuff. Im gonna say it has been really tough to use and I think it is probably the worst steadicam i've ever done due to the clunkiness and hard balance of the camera itself. Even the Quasar setup for regular operating is a pain. Weve been on Technocrane almost every day and the camera is so heavy the flight head sways back and fourth. Visual effects is going to have to stabilize every shot. Let alone we are using the gear over here that hasn't been serviced in who knows when. So thats my experience so far. I love the paradise FX rig. Thats the sweet steadicam rig. Two REDS?!!!!! go get a good physical therapist and get a major rate bump. That is torture.



I just did over 20 days of steadicam work on the last 2 months with the element technica Neutron with Si-2k's and a cinedeck recorder. On sandy beaches in san diego, in London streets and the dirt soccer fields in south africa and in soccer city stadium in Johannesburg.

I actually got the rig to balance very well.....actually almost dynamic. It actually pretty light setup. I operated almost all day long on the discovery beach shoot.

I think at the moment this is easily the best 3D steadicam setup out there.

here some recent pics....

I mounted the si camera bodies upside down, allowing me to centralize the mass as much as possible. notice the mirror box is pushed in all the way....

Posted Image

Posted Image
  • 0

#7 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

Pedro Guimaraes SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 204 posts
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:19 AM

the biggest advantage of the neutron setup is as you can clearly see here the I have the gimbal all the way up (left room to enter the docking bracket) and I can still clear my gimbal handle.....I can literally sprin my rig 360. Yes it is a close fit to the end of the dovetail. I mentioned this to ET and they said they will offer a shorter dovetail, this giving you plenty more room!

The p+s rig sucks in this regard.

Posted Image


Here is me doing a shot in soccer city world cup stadium in Johannesburg, South africa just 1 week ago....

Posted Image
  • 0

#8 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

Pedro Guimaraes SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 204 posts
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:35 AM

few more,

Dirt soccer feilds in soweto township in Johannesburg....

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Pedro_Guimaraes, 09 September 2010 - 02:36 AM.

  • 0

#9 Pedro Guimaraes SOC

Pedro Guimaraes SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 204 posts
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 09 September 2010 - 02:36 AM

I was even crazy enough to agree to shooting out of the side of the van.... not many 3D setups will allow you to do that. Steadicam or no steadicam.

http://i232.photobuc...mo/IMG_9416.jpg

Posted Image

Edited by Pedro_Guimaraes, 09 September 2010 - 02:37 AM.

  • 0

#10 Joel San Juan SOC

Joel San Juan SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 114 posts
  • Providence RI

Posted 09 September 2010 - 12:24 PM

Thank you so much everyone for the kind input and the advice.
At the moment the rig available is the Neutron. The cam test is next week
and I will fight to get the Si 2Ks instead. Thank you Pedro for the pictures.
I will use it as a visual reference to the producers and with a little
power of conviction, I might not need a physio at the end ;)

And I would definitely try to look up the Paradise FX rig recommended by BJ.

Thanks again guys, deeply appreciated.

best,
Joel
  • 0

#11 BJMcDonnell SOC

BJMcDonnell SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 387 posts
  • Malibu, Ca.

Posted 10 September 2010 - 02:34 AM

Im currently in Moscow shooting 3D with the element technica rigs right now. Forget dynamic balance. It will not happen. Regular balance sure, but it is such a pain in the ass to deal with the setup itself. I have the neutron rig with sony P1 cameras on it. It is a heavy beast. It has fiber cables attached and im doing a ton of action stuff. Im gonna say it has been really tough to use and I think it is probably the worst steadicam i've ever done due to the clunkiness and hard balance of the camera itself. Even the Quasar setup for regular operating is a pain. Weve been on Technocrane almost every day and the camera is so heavy the flight head sways back and fourth. Visual effects is going to have to stabilize every shot. Let alone we are using the gear over here that hasn't been serviced in who knows when. So thats my experience so far. I love the paradise FX rig. Thats the sweet steadicam rig. Two REDS?!!!!! go get a good physical therapist and get a major rate bump. That is torture.



I just did over 20 days of steadicam work on the last 2 months with the element technica Neutron with Si-2k's and a cinedeck recorder. On sandy beaches in san diego, in London streets and the dirt soccer fields in south africa and in soccer city stadium in Johannesburg.

I actually got the rig to balance very well.....actually almost dynamic. It actually pretty light setup. I operated almost all day long on the discovery beach shoot.

I think at the moment this is easily the best 3D steadicam setup out there.



Yea but you have the neutron with si 2ks on it and the deck on the back. Of course you can balance it better and yes it is lighter. I'm using the neutron with Sony P1 Cameras so all the weight is in the front and it has two c motion motor drivers on it and 4 motors to sync up to. Trust me if I had the si 2k rig I would be in great shape. Unfortunatly the DP wants the quality of the picture to match the f 35 3D rigs we use for studio mode. The si 2k image isnt even close to match. Oh yea and I'm cabled up too with a fiber cable out the back. Wish I had your setup.

here some recent pics....

I mounted the si camera bodies upside down, allowing me to centralize the mass as much as possible. notice the mirror box is pushed in all the way....

Posted Image

Posted Image


  • 0

#12 thomas-english

thomas-english

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1165 posts
  • UK

Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:44 AM

Pedro, that is very clean.

Where you running parallel with the intention of converging in post on this one? Have you tried dynamic IO and convergence changes on that rig yet?
  • 0

#13 BJMcDonnell SOC

BJMcDonnell SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 387 posts
  • Malibu, Ca.

Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:00 PM

Hey Pedro,


Yea you are flying the neutron rig but with the SI 2Ks. Sure it's easy and light and has the cinedeck on board so sure it balances nice. I'm using the neutron with the Sony P1 cameras so the weight is much heavier and we are recording to codex so I can't use a cinedeck on back. Trust me I've flown the SI2K before and it's a dream but the image quality isn't as good as the P1s. The DP has to match closely to the F35 Quasar rigs so the P1 was the choice. I wish I was able to fly SI 2K!! I also have 2 cmotion motor drivers on it and 4 motors. Our setups are way different so no comparison.
  • 0

#14 Rob Vuona SOC

Rob Vuona SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1143 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 September 2010 - 11:45 PM

Ok my turn to ask,
This is an email I got regarding a possible 3-D shoot at the end of the month
------------
it said:

we will be Shooting on the BX3 rig from 21st century 3D.

http://www.21stcentu...digital-cinema/

It's extremely light for an over/under and should be around 40 lbs with two EX3
cameras. We'll be tethered and recording to SRW 3D as well as the camera cards.
---------------

so ? anyone fly this set up and any words of wisdom ?
  • 0

#15 Rob Vuona SOC

Rob Vuona SOC

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1143 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 September 2010 - 11:58 PM

go get a good physical therapist and get a major rate bump. That is torture.


Hey BJ and the rest of you as well, is there always a rate bump for 3-D or do you at least always try to get a rate bump?
Just one more question of many more to come regarding 3-D . . .LOL . . .
  • 0




Omnishot Systems

GPI Pro Systems

Wireless Video Systems

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

SkyDreams

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

BOXX

Boland Communications

Engineered Cinema Solutions

PLC - Bartech

rebotnix Technologies

PLC Electronics Solutions

IDX

Varizoom Follow Focus

Teradek

Ritter Battery